Dontrelle Willis for MVP

[jakeoh]

I hate the Marlins. Well, I hate them because of what Jeffrey Loria did to the Montreal Expos. I lost much of my interest for baseball since the Spos moved to Washington. But if I could pick anyone to be on my team, it would have to be Dontrelle. He's got 22 wins this year, he's spectacular, and he's so good at batting that he was batting 7th yesterday.

What a great player.

Aaaah man I miss baseball in Montreal.

[Hulkster]

Batting 7th is no reflection of his hitting skills. What they did lastnight was an absolute disgrace to the National League, and the 2 hitters hitting behind him.

[jakeoh]

Dontrelle Willis is first in the major leagues and seventh in the batting order.

Florida's left-hander became the majors' first 22-game winner with a 2-1 victory over the New York Mets on Thursday night, a game in which he batted seventh and kept the Marlins' wild-card hopes alive.

``I hit him seventh because he's a pretty good hitter,'' said manager Jack McKeon, who listed Willis ahead of September callups Joe Dillon and Robert Andino on the lineup card.

``He's got more RBIs than the two guys behind him,'' McKeon said. ``He's got more at-bats and more hits than either one of them have in their whole career. It was not a tough choice.''

According to Elias Sports Bureau, the last pitcher to bat seventh or higher was Montreal's Steve Renko, who did it on Aug. 26, 1973, and went 2-for-3 against San Diego.

Willis went 1-for-4, keeping his season average at .250 (22-for-88).

``I couldn't believe it,'' Willis said. ``Seventh? I want the lineup card. I don't think anybody will believe that. I was nervous about it. I had fun. The guys were making fun of it, saying he would have me bat leadoff.''

Oh yeah, Willis (22-9) was impressive again on the mound, allowing one run and five hits over eight innings.
Why was it a disgrace? The disgrace is that pitchers that win millions every year will not take the time to practice to become decent hitters.

[krispy]

Why was it a disgrace? The disgrace is that pitchers that win millions every year will not take the time to practice to become decent hitters.

I agree, why even allow the pitcher to hit if he means nothing to the offensive half of the lineup. A decent hitting #9 hitter is a must nowadays in the AL, no reason why the NL shouldn't try to follow this trend by getting their pitchers ready to hit.

[gordholio]

I hate the Marlins. Well, I hate them because of what Jeffrey Loria did to the Montreal Expos. I lost much of my interest for baseball since the Spos moved to Washington. But if I could pick anyone to be on my team, it would have to be Dontrelle. He's got 22 wins this year, he's spectacular, and he's so good at batting that he was batting 7th yesterday.

What a great player.

Aaaah man I miss baseball in Montreal.
Actually, the fans had something to do with Montreal's demise.
They didn't show up.

[jakeoh]

Actually, the fans had something to do with Montreal's demise.
They didn't show up.
Yep, they didn't. But getting your best players traded for prospects every year didn't help. The strike in 1994 pretty much killed them.

[Headhunter]

Willis will likely win it, Chris Carpenter won't get too much credit because of the incredible team he's on.

The strike in 1994 pretty much killed them.
So sad, so true.

[Slippery_Pete]

Batting 7th is no reflection of his hitting skills. What they did lastnight was an absolute disgrace to the National League, and the 2 hitters hitting behind him.

If he can hit better than them so be it. No disgrace just because he also happens to be a pitcher....Note to AL, get rid of the DH rule. Note to MLB, force pitchers to take BP... :)

[m77m7]

Willis will likely win it, Chris Carpenter won't get too much credit because of the incredible team he's on.


So sad, so true.
Carpenter didn't get most of his wins because his offense saved him. Look at his ERA and # of K

[The_One]

MVP no. Willis wasn't dominant enough to be considered for the MVP. Cy Young maybe. Looks like a neck and neck race with Carpenter for that award. MVP is going to go to Derek Lee or Pujols.

[Headhunter]

Carpenter didn't get most of his wins because his offense saved him. Look at his ERA and # of K
Not saying he got saved, but his team is a huge advantage.

They also have a strong bullpen and above average defense.

[mingcourt]

Not saying he got saved, but his team is a huge advantage.

They also have a strong bullpen and above average defense.

1. I think Carpenter pitched MANY MANY innings, meaning he didnt need to rely on the bullpen...

ONE THING that i absolutely DONT understand is why people say "above average defense"... i am not saying its stupid or anything... but ppl are paid big bucks to hit the ball, not to show off their glove. being able to play defense should be a given...

2. MVP shouldnt go to the player that is in 35 games a year, compared to someone like Pujols who plays what, 150?

3. MVP will NOT go to Derrek Lee... i dont know why Pujols has not gotten an MVP yet. but he's having a great year... and although Jones is "carrying his team", Pujols has better stats than most of Jones and MVP should NOT go to someone who is valuable to their team...

[gman]

ONE THING that i absolutely DONT understand is why people say "above average defense"... i am not saying its stupid or anything... but ppl are paid big bucks to hit the ball, not to show off their glove. being able to play defense should be a given...

As you said they are paid big buck to hit the ball, hence, the defense ability can be overlooked if he can hit the ball very very well. Position wise, the highest average salary is DH.

[spike-spiegel]

Willis will definitely NOT win the MVP. His team probably won't make the playoffs.

Carpenter or Clemens for Cy Young but Carpenter has the better stats.

I think Andruw Jones will win the MVP just because of what Atlanta has been through. Pujols is just the tough luck loser, he'll win it eventually.

[gordholio]

Are you talking about MVP or Cy Young award?
Pitchers get the CY Young award, whereas, usually batters get the MVP.

[gman]

Willis will definitely NOT win the MVP. His team probably won't make the playoffs.

Carpenter or Clemens for Cy Young but Carpenter has the better stats.

I think Andruw Jones will win the MVP just because of what Atlanta has been through. Pujols is just the tough luck loser, he'll win it eventually.

I think Cy Young will be between Willis and Carpenter. I think the one who has the most W will take that. Both Willis and Carpenter has similiar stat.

Willis has one more W and one more shutout. Carpenter has more Ks.

[gordholio]

Willis will definitely NOT win the MVP. His team probably won't make the playoffs.

Carpenter or Clemens for Cy Young but Carpenter has the better stats.

I think Andruw Jones will win the MVP just because of what Atlanta has been through. Pujols is just the tough luck loser, he'll win it eventually.
I would go for either Carpenter or Willis for the Cy Young and Jones for the MVP.

[The_One]

3. MVP will NOT go to Derrek Lee... i dont know why Pujols has not gotten an MVP yet. but he's having a great year... and although Jones is "carrying his team", Pujols has better stats than most of Jones and MVP should NOT go to someone who is valuable to their team...


Thats easy. Theres a guy name Barry Bonds playing in the National League. :razz:

I do also believe Pujols will one day win the MVP though. He's way too good not to. :D

[NDman]

The "problem" with Derek Lee is that the Cubs fail to make the playoffs. A lot of voters (not all, but a lot) look into that so that discounts some of his votes. I'd say it'll be Andruw Jones this year, Pujols close second.

[mingcourt]

Willis will definitely NOT win the MVP. His team probably won't make the playoffs.

Carpenter or Clemens for Cy Young but Carpenter has the better stats.

I think Andruw Jones will win the MVP just because of what Atlanta has been through. Pujols is just the tough luck loser, he'll win it eventually.

Andruw Jones has been through a lot with Atlanta... but everyone seems to forget about the Cards... they were constantly going through injury troubles and the only player that was consistent was Albert Pujols... (some of em include Scott Rolens, Reggie Sanders, Larry Walker)

[yayawhoo2003]

Chris Carpenter will win the Cy Young
Willis Second, Clemens Third

Pujols MVP...Jones second.

[baller]

MVP is going to go to Derek Lee or Pujols.

i guess you've never heard of a guy named Andruw Jones




pujols is getting the Shaq/MJ treatment, hes good enough to win it every year, but doesnt get it

[Headhunter]

The "problem" with Derrek Lee is that the Cubs fail to make the playoffs. A lot of voters (not all, but a lot) look into that so that discounts some of his votes. I'd say it'll be Andruw Jones this year, Pujols close second.
Shouldn't Dontrelle Willis be punished for this too?

If we consider the tremendous misfortune of Roger Clemens' run support earlier in the season, I'd still pick the Rocket over the D-Train.

[The_One]

The "problem" with Derek Lee is that the Cubs fail to make the playoffs. A lot of voters (not all, but a lot) look into that so that discounts some of his votes. I'd say it'll be Andruw Jones this year, Pujols close second.

Is that why Arod won it in 2003 on a last place team? :razz:

i guess you've never heard of a guy named Andruw Jones


Hitting 50 homers doesn't automatically get you the MVP award. ;) Again look at Bonds. He only went over 50 once. :-0

[yayawhoo2003]

Is that why Arod won it in 2003 on a last place team? :razz:



Hitting 50 homers doesn't automatically get you the MVP award. ;) Again look at Bonds. He only went over 50 once. :-0

True, you have a good point!!! All around play is in better regards. Look at the David Ortiz A Rod situation.

[baller]

Is that why Arod won it in 2003 on a last place team? :razz:



Hitting 50 homers doesn't automatically get you the MVP award. ;) Again look at Bonds. He only went over 50 once. :-0

I guess you forgot that Jones is the best defensive player in the game
thats he's got a gold glove every season he's been in the league
that he's helped lead his team to a division title every year he's been in the league
that he was a key to Atlanta's last WS win
that he's leading the league in RBI's

The only knock on the man is his BA, 50 Homers is just the icing on the cake on a great season for a great player

With that being said though, I won't mind if Pujols gets it because he deserves the almost every year since 2003. I just don't like when ppl are ignornant to all other aspects of the game other than offense/HR and then have the nerve to say that "just because he hit 50 hr's he doesn't deserve mvp"

[The_One]

I guess you forgot that Jones is the best defensive player in the game
thats he's got a gold glove every season he's been in the league
that he's helped lead his team to a division title every year he's been in the league
that he was a key to Atlanta's last WS win
that he's leading the league in RBI's

The only knock on the man is his BA, 50 Homers is just the icing on the cake on a great season for a great player

With that being said though, I won't mind if Pujols gets it because he deserves the almost every year since 2003. I just don't like when ppl are ignornant to all other aspects of the game other than offense/HR and then have the nerve to say that "just because he hit 50 hr's he doesn't deserve mvp"

He is by far not a great player. A very good player. Remember its usually the player with the best all around offensive categories takes the MVP. Not someone with the best defence.

Remember Delgado was leading in RBI's in 2003 for Blue Jays but still lost out to Arod. Go figure eh? :razz:

Atlanta only won one World Series that was in 1995 but Andruw Jones first year is 1996. The only Jones that play in that World Series was Chipper. ;)

All of this is pointless as its only our opinions. Lets see who wins it after the World Series ok? :D

[Eternia]

Actually, the St. Louis offense isn't as good this year by the stats. The only big offensive stat they have a large advantage in is average with RISP.


St.Louis-----Atl
AVG:-.268---.264
Runs:-761----724
RBI:--714----690
OBP:-.338---.331
SLG:-.420---.433
RISP:.286---.248


Then Pujols vs Jones. Pujols pretty much is ahead in most categories except HRs and RBIs and I suppose defense. I'd take Pujols.

G:----154----153
AVG:-.335---.267
OBP:-.431---.351
SLG:-.613---.586
Runs:-122-----92
Hits:-190----151
HR:----39-----50
RBI:--109----126
BB:----91-----64
SB:---16-------3
RISP:.321---.213

[spike-spiegel]

Jones' BA and OBP are kinda weak for an MVP, but his HR RBI and solid importance to team should get him the more votes to win it.

[mingcourt]

I guess you forgot that Jones is the best defensive player in the game
thats he's got a gold glove every season he's been in the league
that he's helped lead his team to a division title every year he's been in the league
that he was a key to Atlanta's last WS win
that he's leading the league in RBI's

The only knock on the man is his BA, 50 Homers is just the icing on the cake on a great season for a great player

With that being said though, I won't mind if Pujols gets it because he deserves the almost every year since 2003. I just don't like when ppl are ignornant to all other aspects of the game other than offense/HR and then have the nerve to say that "just because he hit 50 hr's he doesn't deserve mvp"

Being the best "defensive player in the game" which is still arguable, doesnt get you the MVP.

You say he's "LEAD" his team each year... he was a part of the team, I dont know about LEADING the team like he has this year. Atlanta had players like Chipper, Greg Maddux, Gary Sheffield, etc.

He wasnt in the league when Atlanta last won, which was 1995. and in 1996, he had 5 home runs, and 30 something rbis... i wouldnt call that instant impact.

he's not leading the league in rbi's though... david ortiz is.

[gman]

he's not leading the league in rbi's though... david ortiz is.
Different league. Different MVP. What people does in AL does not affect those in NL.

[baller]

Being the best "defensive player in the game" which is still arguable, doesnt get you the MVP.

well its certainly doesn't hurt ones chances either

You say he's "LEAD" his team each year... he was a part of the team, I dont know about LEADING the team like he has this year. Atlanta had players like Chipper, Greg Maddux, Gary Sheffield, etc.

Go back and read my post again im pretty sure i said "help lead"

He wasnt in the league when Atlanta last won, which was 1995. and in 1996

my bad it slipped my mind that ATL vs. CLEVELAND was in 95 not 96

btw that could be the world series again in '05 - 10years later

he's not leading the league in rbi's though... david ortiz is.

last time i checked Andruw played in the National "LEAGUE"

All of this is pointless as its only our opinions. Lets see who wins it after the World Series ok?

true say

[gordholio]

Jones' BA and OBP are kinda weak for an MVP, but his HR RBI and solid importance to team should get him the more votes to win it.
If Jones' batting average and on base percentage are both low and he's getting tons of RBI's he must be getting his hits when it's important.
BA and OBP are not as important as HR and RBI in my opinion because the name of the game is to score runs.

[Eternia]

I don't see how Jones is more important to the Braves than Pujols is to the Cardinals. Both teams lack that consistent second batter to compliment their big gun this year (such as Manny to Ortiz, Delgado to Cabrera). Both of them make their offenses go but in my opinion, Pujols does it better. He bats in runs as well as getting on base to set up for the rest of the team, amazingly consistent, and doesn't just hit the long ball.

He finally doesn't have to compete against Bonds' disgusting production with a sub-par lineup.

[mingcourt]

My prediction for the MVP winners this year:

AL: David Ortiz
NL: Albert Pujols

[Headhunter]

I don't see how Jones is more important to the Braves than Pujols is to the Cardinals. Both teams lack that consistent second batter to compliment their big gun this year (such as Manny to Ortiz, Delgado to Cabrera).
The Cardinals have Jim Edmonds and (when healthy) Scott Rolen, both 30+ HR bashers to protect Pujols.

I could see the NL MVP going either way. Pujols not only for 2005 but to recognize his consistent brilliance (and likely wins, were it not for Barry Bonds), and Jones because his power numbers are dominant.

Even as a DH, I can't see anyone but David Ortiz winning in the AL.

[NDman]

The Cardinals have Jim Edmonds and (when healthy) Scott Rolen, both 30+ HR bashers to protect Pujols.

And also oft-injured Larry Walker

[spike-spiegel]

The Cardinals have Jim Edmonds and (when healthy) Scott Rolen, both 30+ HR bashers to protect Pujols.

I could see the NL MVP going either way. Pujols not only for 2005 but to recognize his consistent brilliance (and likely wins, were it not for Barry Bonds), and Jones because his power numbers are dominant.

Even as a DH, I can't see anyone but David Ortiz winning in the AL.

A-Rod has had a MVP-type season. The voters might sway towards him since he is a solid infielder. Ortiz only beats A-Rod in RBIs, they are tied in HR and A-Rod is about 0.020 up in BA.

I think whichever teams if one make the playoffs that will decide it in the AL. Though I would like to see Ortiz win it just because he has been the timely clutch hitting for the Bosox.

Perhaps maybe the last weekend series between NYY and BOS will also decide the MVP...

I still pick Andruw Jones as the NL MVP. Pujols will win eventually. Even Derek Lee has put MVP number but Cubs aren't even close to the playoffs.

[Eternia]

The Cardinals have Jim Edmonds and (when healthy) Scott Rolen, both 30+ HR bashers to protect Pujols.

I could see the NL MVP going either way. Pujols not only for 2005 but to recognize his consistent brilliance (and likely wins, were it not for Barry Bonds), and Jones because his power numbers are dominant.

I did say this year. :razz:

Edmonds dropped off a bit in production this year, Rolen has been injured (so has Walker) and struggled mightily. They haven't even had Reggie Sanders that long either.

[Headhunter]

I purposely ignored Larry Walker. :razz:

A-Rod has had a MVP-type season. The voters might sway towards him since he is a solid infielder. Ortiz only beats A-Rod in RBIs, they are tied in HR and A-Rod is about 0.020 up in BA.
The Yankees' insane payroll and talent roster will be held against A-Rod...

[mingcourt]

A-Rod has had a MVP-type season. The voters might sway towards him since he is a solid infielder. Ortiz only beats A-Rod in RBIs, they are tied in HR and A-Rod is about 0.020 up in BA.

I think whichever teams if one make the playoffs that will decide it in the AL. Though I would like to see Ortiz win it just because he has been the timely clutch hitting for the Bosox.

Perhaps maybe the last weekend series between NYY and BOS will also decide the MVP...

I still pick Andruw Jones as the NL MVP. Pujols will win eventually. Even Derek Lee has put MVP number but Cubs aren't even close to the playoffs.

I dont understand why people have the whole "defense" thing in mind... its pretty much saying a closer shouldnt deserve Cy Young because a starter pitches more innings...

[gman]

I dont understand why people have the whole "defense" thing in mind... its pretty much saying a closer shouldnt deserve Cy Young because a starter pitches more innings...

Because it is part of baseball??

If 2 players are equal, the one who does more will be awarded a bit more. A.Rod can do Ortiz's job in offense while Ortiz can't do A.Rod's job in defense.

However, IMO, A.Rod is not exactly a very good infielder. At least, no good enough to have major impact to one's decision.

BTW, closer is not often getting Cy Young unless he did something nobody did before.

[Headhunter]

I dont understand why people have the whole "defense" thing in mind...
Defense is important, as is the park they pitch in; Roger Clemens should get extra credit for playing in a tiny ballpark, for example.

its pretty much saying a closer shouldnt deserve Cy Young because a starter pitches more innings...
A criteria I agree with, unless the closer is overwhelmingly dominant like Eric Gagne when he won it.

[spike-spiegel]

A criteria I agree with, unless the closer is overwhelmingly dominant like Eric Gagne when he won it.

Or when the league doesn't have a clear Cy Young worthy starting pitcher like this year in the AL. Some people say Bartolo Colon (his stats are solid) might get it but I think Rivera should get it. He's been lights out.

[Cleveland612]

I don't believe that Willis is deserving of the MVP since he is only capable of being a factor in 35 games. Although he is a good candidate for the Cy. Especially since Carpenter has fallen on harder times lately. The vote should be close. Clemens should be a close third. Although he has a great ERA, he hasn't pitched many late inning games.
Pujols and Jones are equally deserving of the NL MVP.
I think Jones might have the edge since the Braves had some early problems finding productive outfielders.
Pujols may have a slight disadvantage since the Cards are perceived to have a better offensive lineup.
If each of them had a 2 month injury during the season, which team would have suffered more?

I don't think that a DH should win the MVP award unless they have an absolutely incredible season. I wouldn't vote for Ortiz.
Too many people fail to look at all aspects of the game that a good player can have an impact upon (fielding, throwing, instinct, leadership, hitting and baserunning). Ortiz can hit and provide leadership....that's all.

Too bad Halladay got hurt during the season. He was on pace to win the Cy. It would have been really cool if the CY awards went to Halladay and Carpenter. My vote for the AL Cy would go to Rivera.

[gman]

At least, Boston fans thinks Ortiz is the MVP of their team.
His clutch hits helped his team from 2 game behind to 1 game behind tonight.
That is huge.

[spike-spiegel]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2169228

Very interesting ESPN article about the awards. Read and vote.

I picked:
- weekend
- Jones
- Rivera
- Carpenter
- Street
- Francoeur
- Wedge
- Cox