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View Full Version : Removal of Garbage Bins at TTC Subway stations ... AGREE or DISAGREE? WHY?


TigerEROS
Aug 31st, 2005, 07:29 PM
TTC removes trash bins
Triggered by terrorism threat
New bins reduce risk of bombing

KEVIN MCGRAN
TRANSPORTATION REPORTER

The TTC is removing 1,600 garbage cans and 400 recycling bins from subway platforms to protect against a terror strike.

"In the grand scheme of things it's a small thing, but you can't be too cautious," said Toronto Transit Commission chairman Howard Moscoe.

Toronto joins a growing list of cities around the world that are removing trash cans as a way to defend against terrorism.

London has long banned garbage cans from its subway, a response to IRA attacks in the 1980s. Seoul just announced a similar measure, joining Washington, D.C., and San Francisco.

"The trigger for the whole thing is (the terror threat)," TTC operations manager Gary Webster said yesterday.

"Over a year ago we spoke about security concerns, what's happening around the world, what have other properties done with their garbage," Webster said.

According to one security expert, terrorists find trash-can bombs "a very cost-effective use of resources." They can be detonated by remote control, don't require suicide bombers, can be easily concealed, and offer a variety of locations from gas stations, to subways to crowded malls, said David Forbes, president of security firm BoydForbes Inc.

But where do subway passengers put their garbage?

A staff report to be debated by TTC commissioners today recommends the installation of 375 waste containers with stainless steel frames that hold clear plastic bags.

They would be located away from subway platforms, in the areas where commuters enter and exit the subway system. The $277,000 program will help combat "the threat of terrorism to our subway system," the report reads.

But subway users will have to carry their trash and recyclables to the mezzanine levels of stations where the new bins will be located. Two stops — Queen and Dundas — will have new trash bins on the subway platform level because those stations don't have mezzanines.

Moscoe said it's possible that TTC subway platforms and the trains will be littered with garbage if passengers just begin discarding their refuse on the floor. But the results of unannounced pilot tests at two stations suggest otherwise, Webster said.

"We actually believe the public will co-operate," said Webster. "There needs to be a big campaign to educate the public. Part of the public campaign is going to be what we're doing and why we're doing it, encourage them to take their garbage with them and deposit it at mezzanine level."

Security experts recommend that unnecessary trash containers be removed from use while those remaining be located in prominent, well-lit areas within view of cameras and away from sources of secondary fragmentation such as windows, mirrors or overhead glass.

Forbes argues against removing bins because the result will be messier subway platforms that can be a fire hazard and a haven for rats and vermin.

A better idea is the use of trash bins that can contain or diminish the effect of a bomb exploding within them.

The TTC concluded that by using waste bins that are frames holding garbage bags — instead of encased bins — the shrapnel effect of a bomb blast would be minimized, Webster said.

"By having a small stainless steel frame and clear bags, you can see when they're full and clear them out quickly; you can also see what's in them better," said Webster.

"Worst case, if someone was to do something stupid, you're going to get less shrapnel because you haven't tried to contain the bomb."

Webster said anything that can be done to contain a bomb — using stronger steel and an encased bin, for example — can be overcome by a bigger bomb.

"We said let's minimize the shrapnel issue and let's go with clear bags," he said.

================================================== =====

I definitely agree. If you have litter .... take it somewhere else. I don't want to be killed by a bomb in a garbage can on the subway platform. Heck! There's plenty of garbage cans on the streets.

Hulkster
Aug 31st, 2005, 07:31 PM
Waste of time and stupid idea.

Kommander_KornFlakes
Aug 31st, 2005, 07:34 PM
Oh goodie, I now don't have to walk like 150-ft to the end of the subway station to throw away my chocolate wrap, I'll just dump my garbage on the tracks.

BobW
Aug 31st, 2005, 07:44 PM
Sadly, you can count on terroists to be nice people.... the first time I was in London (England), I remarked to someone that I was surprised how dirty it was. They looked at me like I was from a different planet and said "That's because the IRA was putting bombs in them". Lesson learned....

MrDisco
Aug 31st, 2005, 07:44 PM
Oh goodie, I now don't have to walk like 150-ft to the end of the subway station to throw away my chocolate wrap, I'll just dump my garbage on the tracks.

its people like you that really make this city such a crappy place :mad:

stupid idea? hello london bombings? its a good idea but the only bad part is people like kornflakes there will just litter even more.

CRXGSR
Aug 31st, 2005, 08:06 PM
I thought I heard they weren't getting rid of them, but instead introducing new clear ones so you can see what's inside!

Yay! I get to see what garbage looks like now!

Kommander_KornFlakes
Aug 31st, 2005, 08:15 PM
That's stupidity man, and a waste of time.

1. Al-Qaeda doesn't give a diddly squat about Canada, she's just a fly on the wall, a nosy footslave fly on the wall that aids and abets the bullying/terrorism of the United States.

2. If they do remember us and hit us, they will just leave a backpack in a subway seat and get it over with. What terrorist would be stupid enough to leave a bomb in a trash can where it can't do too much damage as if it was inside a subway car?

15-20_God
Aug 31st, 2005, 08:24 PM
at least it makes the ttc look like they're making an effort.

UrbanPoet
Aug 31st, 2005, 08:25 PM
That's stupidity man, and a waste of time.

1. Al-Qaeda doesn't give a diddly squat about Canada, she's just a fly on the wall, a nosy footslave fly on the wall that aids and abets the bullying/terrorism of the United States.

2. If they do remember us and hit us, they will just leave a backpack in a subway seat and get it over with. What terrorist would be stupid enough to leave a bomb in a trash can where it can't do too much damage as if it was inside a subway car?


there actually was a terrorist attack in Canada before.
Remember that time when a anti-abortionist protester threw a brick through an abortion clinic window?

I heard that groups like radical anti-abortionist protesters are considered terrorist :cheesygri

Kommander_KornFlakes
Aug 31st, 2005, 08:35 PM
there actually was a terrorist attack in Canada before.
Remember that time when a anti-abortionist protester threw a brick through an abortion clinic window?

I heard that groups like radical anti-abortionist protesters are considered terrorist :cheesygri

Canada has this arab doctor in jail-- without charges and without a crime being committed-- since 2001 and doesn't let him go free, but yet we have criminals with guns killing people on the streets and they are not hunted down with too much effort or deemed more dangerous than law-abiding muslim doctors, Canad's policy is a joke.

J1M
Aug 31st, 2005, 08:38 PM
Moving garbage cans is not going to stop terrorists. They will just put a bomb on a subway car or a bus instead. This is a stupid waste of money.

Wildfire
Aug 31st, 2005, 08:44 PM
The subways are gonna be full of litter, you watch..

Pointless idea.

guest913
Aug 31st, 2005, 08:48 PM
Terrorists would accomplish nothing by bombing Toronto. The only thing they'll create is hatred towards anyone who's "brown". They'll do more harm than good if they bomb Toronto.

I work at the bank and I know that we take extra extra precaution when someone who's brown presents us with a large amount of money.

d_jedi
Aug 31st, 2005, 08:50 PM
Good idea.
Ignorant, disgusting people who litter are going to be ignorant, disgusting slobs whether garbage cans are close by or not.

There are more things that the TTC needs to do to prevent terrorism, but it's a start (not necessarily a good start, but a start nonetheless).

kilarney
Aug 31st, 2005, 08:50 PM
Terrorists would accomplish nothing by bombing Toronto. The only thing they'll create is hatred towards anyone who's "brown". They'll do more harm than good if they bomb Toronto.

I work at the bank and I know that we take extra extra precaution when someone who's brown presents us with a large amount of money.
What if the brown person is a cauacasian with a tan? Would you take extra precaution that might make them feel uncomfortable? Sorry for going off topic.

Sorry it might have been a dumb question.

J1M
Aug 31st, 2005, 08:53 PM
What if the brown person is a cauacasian with a tan? Would you take extra precaution that might make them feel uncomfortable? Sorry for going off topic.
If you are able to confuse the two you must have the thickest glasses known to man.

I reassert my objection to this idea by further suggesting that someone who was responsible for this decision has a brother who sells garbage cans.

guest913
Aug 31st, 2005, 08:59 PM
What if the brown person is a cauacasian with a tan? Would you take extra precaution that might make them feel uncomfortable? Sorry for going off topic.

Sorry it might have been a dumb question.

In that case

If first + last name > 20 characters than client = brown
else
other

lol

blahraptors
Aug 31st, 2005, 09:12 PM
GREAT! now ttc has to spend money hiring more ppl to clean up stations! goes to show we're just as scared as the americans and brits of terrorists. maybe martin (and everyone) should stop helping the stupid americans so we wont all freak out. dumb idea to say the least

UrbanPoet
Aug 31st, 2005, 09:18 PM
Oy... I seen these things @ yonge and dundas that look like lil rings but the bag just hangs there.
hold on.. lemme draw a diagram


http://img320.imageshack.us/img320/6497/garbage3ha.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

TigerEROS
Aug 31st, 2005, 09:20 PM
The subways are gonna be full of litter, you watch..

Pointless idea.

Hahahahaha ......

Full of Litter .... that means we're keeping the unemployment rate low 'cause they're gonna hire more people to clean the mess. Most TTC guys don't do much anyway. Time for them to really "make" their money instead of sitting around.

The guys that sit in the Ticket Booths (6 hours at one station and then another 6 hours at another station = a 12 hour day with no stress, but lots of time to piss commuters off) make around $65,000 a year ..... I did a mortgage for a TTC Employee before ... so I know how much they make.

fakishan
Aug 31st, 2005, 09:39 PM
this is dumb, because all a terrorist has to do is leave the bomb in a paper bag. and i thought alqaeda was more into suicide bombing? gonna ask "brown" people to wear see-through clothes? yuvk :P

old_old_7
Aug 31st, 2005, 09:44 PM
Delete all the terror group list from our goverment list, and we won't get attack, we'll save brillion and brillion $ ,save lot of time for "securty check" that sort of thing.

JimG
Aug 31st, 2005, 09:48 PM
Oy... I seen these things @ yonge and dundas that look like lil rings but the bag just hangs there.
hold on.. lemme draw a diagram


http://img320.imageshack.us/img320/6497/garbage3ha.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

did you draw that yourself? Great work. :razz:

Jim

dakota2001
Aug 31st, 2005, 10:38 PM
Anyone up for another fare hike?

GangStarr
Aug 31st, 2005, 10:42 PM
I reassert my objection to this idea by further suggesting that someone who was responsible for this decision has a brother who sells garbage cans.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Sounds about right, excellent quote!

Dog5
Sep 1st, 2005, 03:50 AM
Sadly, you can count on terroists to be nice people.... the first time I was in London (England), I remarked to someone that I was surprised how dirty it was. They looked at me like I was from a different planet and said "That's because the IRA was putting bombs in them". Lesson learned....

Yeah, and the London subway system hasn't been bombed since.

"Lesson learned" :lol:

This little exercise is a simple testing of the water to see how accepting the sheeple are of "terrorism" being used as an excuse for everything from belly-button lint to cows farting.

As always, the sheeple will eat the pablum up with a spoon and I'll get another good laugh.

Until the next time...