Caeer Oppurtunities: Comp Eng vs. Comp Sci?

[nkwu]

I only vaguely know the difference between Computer Engineering and Science, but what really is important to me is the career oppurtnities that you can get from it/courses you take. I can find the courses that I have to take through course calendars, but Unveristy brochures suck and don't give me the information I need.

So, I was owndering what oppurtinities that cOmputer engineering and computer science have, and which ones are unique to each one. Also what oppurtunities are equal to engineering and science.

Thanks to all thsoe that can help.

Also, anybody who took that Engineering course @ UT with the 2 year MBA course thrown on . I forget the program name, but I know you have to have a 74% average in Univeristy. If anybody has taken, oris enrolled in this program, how was your experience.

[carabunny]

"career opportunities" is the correct spelling...

just wanted to correct ya. i'm in psych/philo so i can't help you. sorry.

[danku]

Engineers will always be regarded as higher educated people than Computer Science. An engineering degree is more impressive than a computer science degree.

Computer Engineering is more hardware related I believe while Computer Science is more software related.

Engineers will have to take more maths, physics and electronic courses than computer scientists.

Me myself I recently graduated from Computer Science and I'm still looking for a job. I believe there are more opportunities for Computer Engineers.

[f00kie]

The Jeffrey Skoll program is the one you mentioned where you get an MBA with just 2 more years.

[Chris78]

That is becaue the Engineering degree is a "professional" degree.

[ph4tb0i]

I think in terms of finding a job, it is equally hard for both computer engineering and computer science. The thing you also have to remember is computer engineering is still not accredited by the Professional Engineering Board of Ontario, so if you do decide to take Computer Engineering, it may be a harder road for you to get your license as a professional engineer (i think UofT might be getting the accreditation for their program soon, i'm not sure). If you like software, then either computer science or computer engineering should be right for you, but make sure you have a passion for the stuff before you get into engineering, or else you will regret it for life. If you like hardware, then I would recommend you go into Electrical Engineering instead (also do note that the Electrical Engineering program is fully accredited in most universities).

To answer your question about the difference between a comp eng and a comp sci, it's basically like this (well this is from a friend of mine who goes to UofT, 4rth year comp eng). You have the computer science person that will know how to code in a specific language. However, the computer engineer (or software engineer) will be the person that actually comes up with the language in the first place... So this is why computer engineers will be more prestigious than computer scientists (not to mention it's a lot harder to get that engineering degree as well) Hope that helps..:)

[kawai]

I think in terms of finding a job, it is equally hard for both computer engineering and computer science. The thing you also have to remember is computer engineering is still not accredited by the Professional Engineering Board of Ontario, so if you do decide to take Computer Engineering, it may be a harder road for you to get your license as a professional engineer (i think UofT might be getting the accreditation for their program soon, i'm not sure). If you like software, then either computer science or computer engineering should be right for you, but make sure you have a passion for the stuff before you get into engineering, or else you will regret it for life. If you like hardware, then I would recommend you go into Electrical Engineering instead (also do note that the Electrical Engineering program is fully accredited in most universities).

To answer your question about the difference between a comp eng and a comp sci, it's basically like this (well this is from a friend of mine who goes to UofT, 4rth year comp eng). You have the computer science person that will know how to code in a specific language. However, the computer engineer (or software engineer) will be the person that actually comes up with the language in the first place... So this is why computer engineers will be more prestigious than computer scientists (not to mention it's a lot harder to get that engineering degree as well) Hope that helps..:)

No, CE at UofT and UW and other schools have been accredited for PEng since forever, check here (http://www.ccpe.ca/e/acc_programs_2.cfm) for whether your engineering degree is accredited or not but here is the list for CE:

COMPUTER ENGINEERING
Alberta: 1983-
British Columbia: 2000-
Calgary: 2002-
Concordia: 1983-
Manitoba: 1987-
McGill: 1993-
McMaster: 1981-
Memorial: 2002-
New Brunswick: 2001-
Ottawa: 1990-
Queen's: 2002-
Royal Military: 1983-
Toronto: 1994-
Victoria: 1988-
Waterloo: 1989-
Western Ontario: 2001-

You become a PEng once you get the degree 4years of experience + ethic tests + $$$

Don't go to CE if you are just planning to program, it's a waste of time. Ask yourself why do you need PEng for a programming job. I just believe that after all the insanity they put you through, EE is worth much more.

In my year, there is a massive exdous of CE going to EE, I wonder why :confused:

[supernerd]

I think its so sad that CS is always equated to "software" and "programming". Computing Science. Its about being a scientist, not a programmer. Although its pretty hard to go through a good CS program without becoming being a decent programmer, CS can be so much more than just programming. I think what sets CS apart is that it is about understanding the line between what is computable and what is not.

As for Engineering, well, I think Chris78 said it best: "the Engineering degree is a 'professional' degree".

With that said, I honestly don't think it matters if you want to work in the software industry. Many companies view the two fields in a very similar light -- they're both 'university-grade programmers'. I've met a mix of CS,SE,CE, and even EE, in all sorts of software-oriented positions...

[nkwu]

Thanks, I always found simplifying it to one side being hardware, and one side being osftware, over simplistic. All of the replies put everything in a better perspective for me.

Looks like choosing my program is gonna be a bit harder. :|


and has anyone taken/cponsidering taking the Skoll program?(thanks for giving me the name), I am very interested in it and was wondering if its worth it to go to UT for that program.

[m77m7]

This is pretty far from the truth. Your programming language analogy is not true and its not the reason why comp eng's are allegedly more prestigious. Its very difficult to differentiate the two without generalizing them as "software" and "hardware", because the explanation is long. Both CE and CS requires logic, math, physics, and complex problem solving but in completely different ways (with many similarities as well).

A comp sci grad can easily learn some/most of the stuff that comp eng people learn and vice versa.

To answer your question about the difference between a comp eng and a comp sci, it's basically like this (well this is from a friend of mine who goes to UofT, 4rth year comp eng). You have the computer science person that will know how to code in a specific language. However, the computer engineer (or software engineer) will be the person that actually comes up with the language in the first place... So this is why computer engineers will be more prestigious than computer scientists (not to mention it's a lot harder to get that engineering degree as well) Hope that helps..:)

[Tharyn]

I was in CompE at Waterloo, and just recently transferred to EE, I just realized that I can't stand programming, while I'm good at it, I don't enjoy it and don't want to waste my time focusing on it and taking more courses, Power Systems is where it's at!

Also, a lot of employers see as CompE ~= CS, which is a shame especially if you want to get into the hardware end of CompE.

--Mark

[m77m7]

Is it because that most jobs around the GTA are mostly software related? there are very limited engineering opportunities in the area. The US is where its at for eng jobs.

I was in CompE at Waterloo, and just recently transferred to EE, I just realized that I can't stand programming, while I'm good at it, I don't enjoy it and don't want to waste my time focusing on it and taking more courses, Power Systems is where it's at!

Also, a lot of employers see as CompE ~= CS, which is a shame especially if you want to get into the hardware end of CompE.

--Mark

[Headhunter]

Computer engineering is more esoteric, computer programmers are really plentiful. My advice: pick the one you enjoy more. Trying to go through life doing something you hate is no way to live...

"career opportunities" is the correct spelling...
And also the name of a Jennifer Connelly movie from the 90's (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0101545/)! It's pretty stupid, but she looks great in a tight T-shirt. :razz:

[divx]

comp eng is harder than comp sci

[longo]

I was under the impression that computer engineers dealt with software that was needed for hardware (ie drivers) and computer science dealt with software for applications (ie windows applications, games) :confused:

[xwar]

Comp Eng

[yell0w_c0w]

As someone previously said, it doesn't matter in which field you go. I am currently working for an aerospace company and 80% of the guys are engineers (electricl, comp and mech) and 20% are comp sci ppl. All of the ppl do the same type of work (code, test, code, test etc), but Eng's have this thing called a title... They can sign papers and talk to customers.

The best advice is, pick whatever you like better... !! Engineering degree will drill you with alot of physics and electronics, while comp sci is almost pure programming/algorithms etc.

And sorry to say, but I strongly disagree with the creating/using programming language analogy. It's almost like saying comp sci will always one step under engineers but that's not true at all. They excel in different areas. Plus, it is very commonplace to see comp eng's do comp sci work, and comp sci doing comp eng work... Heck I know someone in electrical engineering working as a tester for Microsoft! :P

[Tharyn]

I was under the impression that computer engineers dealt with software that was needed for hardware (ie drivers) and computer science dealt with software for applications (ie windows applications, games) :confused:

A CS student could easily do drivers and personally I'd say probabaly do a better job than a CompE grad.

I'd say CompE programming is more on the RTOS end and lower-level programming, either way, can't stand the stuff.

--Mark

[m77m7]

I think the best way to the OP to get a good idea about the differences is to look at the list of courses by title for each program.

[nkwu]

hmm, I know entery level jobs are mainly code monkeying and I am interested in computers, but want to avoid stiting infornt of a computer and code monkeying for days on end.

and based on what youguys have told me, I am comfortable, and enjoy the algorithims/drilled with physics equally. But I'd say, I like problem sovling ab it more.


Thanks for all the info, and I'll take a look @ the course calendar requirements

[Loomy]

You will get a job if you like what you do. It helps to be a nice sociable person as well.

[longo]

You will get a job if you like what you do. It helps to be a nice sociable person as well.

Very true, you'll get jobs if you know people who can hook you up!

[m77m7]

Very true, you'll get jobs if you know people who can hook you up!
its all good if that makes you feel proud like you accomplished something :)

[nkwu]

well, connectons are basically THE key to be successful, no matter how you put it. You can get by without them, but to get up there without connections, it takes a TON of work.

[br-]

I was in CompE at Waterloo, and just recently transferred to EE, I just realized that I can't stand programming, while I'm good at it, I don't enjoy it and don't want to waste my time focusing on it and taking more courses, Power Systems is where it's at!

Also, a lot of employers see as CompE ~= CS, which is a shame especially if you want to get into the hardware end of CompE.

--Mark

How did switching from CE to EE work out for you? I'm enrolled in a CE program at UW starting in september and I'm wondering whether to switch to EE right now (if it's even possible) or after first year. Also, was it difficult to switch?

[m77m7]

It can be *A* key, but its not *THE* key. What happened to people who work hard and impress the pants off of people with their brains and work ethic to get places. I know a few who are like that, but sadly many use connections the lazy way.

well, connectons are basically THE key to be successful, no matter how you put it. You can get by without them, but to get up there without connections, it takes a TON of work.

[gheart008]

I just graduated from the Computer Science degree at UBC, and I took five years since I also did coop. On top of that, I did a monir in Commerce. My friend who went into university with me took Computer Engineering. First two years we took the same courses, but after that, they started doing more programming related to hardware (like code to get a robotic arm to work). Sounded really cool what he was doing, but looking around at where we were located (Vancouver, BC), there's no way in hell he could have got a job doing that stuff just because there's no where here that does that. On top of that, Computer Engineering does NOT have the option of minor in Commerce (or minor in anything else for that matter) at least to my knowledge at UBC.

From what I could see, the entire computer science program at UBC was geared towards more research, while computer engineering was geared more towards practical work. The way they teach you and the courses they offer seem to suggest this.

In the end, my friend had to move away to find a job, I got a job right after I graduated. I took the minor in Commerce since I loved the business side of things, and now I work at Conner, Clark, and Lunn, a financial investment management firm.. exactly what I wanted.

So in summary, there's a few points to take out of my little story.

1) You can't relaly compare which program is better just by comparing which has a better chance of getting a job. I could choose the career of a McDonald's clerk, chances of me getting that job after grad is probably not a problem. But do I want to do that? No.

2) Leading from point 1, you have to go into something that interests you, and not just base it on the career opportunities. As someone mentioned before, you will easily get a job if you love what you do. I loved what I did, and I showed sincere interest in the job I applied for, and had no problem getting it.

3) You have to look around at your location and see what types of firms are situated there. Chances of finding a job (assuming that you want to find one in the same city as where you live) when 95% of the companies there are related to that industry, your chances of finding a job there is a lot higher than if you went into business with only the last 5% of the industry being related to that. If you're willing to relocate, then research where yu're willing to relocate to (after choosing something you really enjoy doing) and then plan appropriately.

4) Alot is based on your personality too. Everywhere that I've had interviews for, they mention that they hire roughly 75% based on personality and how well you fit into their corporate culture. The other 25% is just to know the basics, and everything else can be learned. Of course this applies to entry level jobs a lot more, but since you're talking about university path, then this should apply to you.

Hope that helped.

[toalan]

I was in CE at UofT and transfered to EE because I really hated programming, well at the time I did. I could not stand any of the higher level languages (C, java, etc...) because you spent most of your time learning syntax and little time doing anything else.

My take on Comp Eng is this, if you are really smart Comp Eng is the best because it gives you exposure to both hardware and software, and you can in theory do everything an EE does as well as a CS does. You have the knowledge base to do everything from designing a processor, to making the Operating system to writing a development language for your processor.

However in real life everything is so complex that CE just becomes washed down. A CE really can not compete against an EE for anything hardware realated or circuit related. A CE can not really compete against a CS for software realated stuff either.

So im my mind everything is black and white, if you like hardware go into EE. IMHO EE is harder than CS so in the future you can easily learn CS stuff while the CS guy would stuggle to learn EE stuff.

If you like programming then go into CS, but do not dream of ever really getting into hardware related jobs.

If you are really smart, I mean really smart, getting 100% in high school does not qualify as smart in my books. You have to be the type of guy who with a mere thought can understand the universe smart, like hawking, einstien etc... then go into CE since EE and CS by itself will bore you to tears.

As for job opportunites well there is, I would say, more jobs for CS guys than CE or EE. I only say that because I treat any programming related job as a CS job and generally there are more programming jobs out there than any hardware related job.

As for pay CE or EE gets payed more, only because they are rarer as compared to CS guys, but there are still an overbundance of CE and EE guys out there.

As for me, I niether work in any CE of EE related field, but I make good money in finance because I can learn quickly due to the 4 years in hell in EE. In my spare time I hobby in EE stuff, I am going to release the world first XTEA encrypted bootloader for the AVR microcontroller as freeware, as well I am looking to release kickass digital electronics sometime this year.

EE was the perfect fit for me in retrospect, however it is not because I am good at math or because I am very proficient at electronics. It is because by nature I am a very creative person. When I was younger I was considering going into english because i loved to write short stories. But I had a good high school average so I went into CE/EE instead. Now that I have a decent understanding of EE, I can be creative and think of cool things to do, while my knowledge of electronics allows me to achieve my creative goals.

Artists paint with colors, poets paint with words, CS paints with code, EE paints with electrons, and CE paints with both.

If it is a toss up between CE and CS and you are unsure then go with CE, only because it will give you the knowledge base needed to tackly learn any CS or EE related material later. Going into CS you are stuck in CS. My personal wisdom is that if you are unsure about what to do, make the choice which will give you the maxium flexibility so that the doors are still open later when you decide. CE you can transfer to CS or EE, with CS it is alot harder.

The MBA + engineering thing at UofT is pretty nice, I think it got introduced the year I graduated so I was never able to qualify for it and my average was only a B-. But personally I do not think to highly of an MBA degree so it is no loss in my books.

There is alot more I would love to say about this subject but I think I have said enough.

Regards,

[chadder]

I'm taking Software Engineering at UW now, which is basically a cross between Comp Eng and Comp Sci. Having taking courses from both, I can say that Comp Eng is a lot more focused on physical applications. The assignments/labs for our comp eng classes were basically going into a lab with a computer hooked up to a circuit board, then programming it to make it work, whereas in Comp Sci you would program using a simulator that acts like the chip.

Also, math in Comp Eng focuses on taking theorems and applying them to circuits and systems, whereas the Comp Sci math is more focused on theorems and understanding them.

[gheart008]

I'm taking Software Engineering at UW now, which is basically a cross between Comp Eng and Comp Sci. Having taking courses from both, I can say that Comp Eng is a lot more focused on physical applications. The assignments/labs for our comp eng classes were basically going into a lab with a computer hooked up to a circuit board, then programming it to make it work, whereas in Comp Sci you would program using a simulator that acts like the chip.

Also, math in Comp Eng focuses on taking theorems and applying them to circuits and systems, whereas the Comp Sci math is more focused on theorems and understanding them.

I agree with everything that was said here, at least that's how it is at UBC. Although CS at UBC has courses where you work with actual circuit boards now. Man I feel shafted...

[Tharyn]

Also, one of the key differences between CompE and EE, (at Waterloo) is that CompE's never touch Power Systems, or motor physics and such, rather they spend time learning about RTOSes, and Assembly.

Therefore, in response to the post above no a CompE could not do everything a EE could do, and nor could an EE do everything a CompE could do. Although CompE is a specialization of EE, they are still inherently different.

--Mark

[toalan]

umm yes and no. Power systems is just circuits runing at 60Hz so if you know circuits you should not be too lost in power systems, you get into gauss elimination and gauss sidel stuff, but they are not too hard. Motor control is a joke, not too much to learn in there, atleast i did not learn anything in that course.

I can not comment about RTOS, but I learned assembly on my own as part of my hobbies.

Well maybe I made an error in my comment, I did not mean that CE could do all EE and CS stuff right out of the school. What I meant was that CE has the basis to quickly learn most EE and CS material, infact it would be mostly trivial for CE to learn anything.

I have great respect for good CE guys they really need to master alot more stuff than EE and CS.

[toalan]

School is not about learning stuff infront of you, it is about knowing what you do not know.

For instance in CE you do not learn motors and power systems but you know it is out there, so atleast you know that there is more and you can seek out the knowledge.

In CS you live in a world that is all about programming, you do not even know that power systems, control systems etc... is out there, so you will never try to seek it out.

Knowing what you do not know is as important as knowing what you know.

[gheart008]

Knowing what you do not know is as important as knowing what you know.

Well said! :cheesygri

[siriuskao]

You have the computer science person that will know how to code in a specific language. However, the computer engineer (or software engineer) will be the person that actually comes up with the language in the first place... So this is why computer engineers will be more prestigious than computer scientists (not to mention it's a lot harder to get that engineering degree as well) Hope that helps..

this is so wrong. computer science is all about algorithm/math, therefore creation of new language, algorithms are generally developed or interest for computer scientist. software engineering is about process.

IMO programming is not the true focus of a computer science degree, anybody can pick up a "Sam teach yourself XXX in 24hrs" and learn programming. If all you want is learn Java might as well save your $$$ and learn it at a college or read a book.

[gheart008]

You have the computer science person that will know how to code in a specific language. However, the computer engineer (or software engineer) will be the person that actually comes up with the language in the first place... So this is why computer engineers will be more prestigious than computer scientists (not to mention it's a lot harder to get that engineering degree as well) Hope that helps..:)

That statement has no validity whatsoever. I have no idea where you get your ideas from where you openly state that computer languages are created by computer engineers... if anything, it's the other way around buddy.

[hugh_da_man]

While I think both are similar and have some similar knowledge, the Computer Engineer has a different life span than the Comp Sci grad.

If you are doing compsci for code related research then it's excellent. If you like code related research I don't recommend engineering. A lot of engineers go for graduate studies but the people I know who were interested in programming and grad studies eventually ended up in computer science anyways...with great hassle. If you want to do hardware research (nanotech or whatever) then engineering is for you.

My only problem with recommending someone get a compsci degree is that someone in India or another developing country can do it better and cheaper. Your job is only here till it becomes cheaper for your company to offshore the work.

Computer engineers should always have work. We are the people that develop the systems and ideas. Sure compsci's can do it too but every R&D company I've known employs engineers for development and testing. The computer science grads do coding of all types (compilers, drivers, applications, etc) but the original idea usually comes from the higher ups and those people are usually engineers. Engineers are professionals. Comp sci's aren't considered professionals.

An engineer will start off writing code but there is an opportunity to move up. Engineers are exposed to project management, ethics, ecomonics, etc. and are pushed to thinking about the higher level before thinking about the specifics. They still learn all the theory and practical applications but they are also given a strong dose of management.

I know a lot of rich compsci's who work in great fields but I know a lot more compsci's who work in call centres for software companies while the engineers work in the head office.

------

Oh and about the EE vs CE thing. CE is not ~= CS and every employer I've talked to understands that. EE and CE are similar but when asked by people who don't know my explanation of the difference is this.

EE = hardware w/ very little sw experience
CE = software/hardware w/ little attention to hardware applications (ie, power although it's really easy and the concepts were taught to the CE anyways)
SE = software w/ no hw. Their knowledge of hardware is usually equivalent to that of a compsci but their attention to design and project management is far superior to anything an EE or CE sees for project management.

The CE is the middle ground but usually it's the person who is interested in integration. I might not design the radio in a car but I'm the person the electrical engineer needs to make sure the computer integrates with it. They are all important and I've seen nearly equal job opportunities for all of them. Also, don't forget that engineering is not that specific. I know CE's that are resevoir engineers and Civil's that are doing programming. You can do anything you want with an engineering degree.

[dmdsoftware2]

Some companies, like IBM, will accept a "Computer Science Specialist in Software Engineering" when they are looking for "Engineers" for a position (even though they realize the Software Engineering is not really Engineering.

Having made it through a specialist in software engineering, the only difference is that you need to take 3 engineering courses that someone taking any of the other computer science streams would not take.

[zoo]

My only problem with recommending someone get a compsci degree is that someone in India or another developing country can do it better and cheaper. Your job is only here till it becomes cheaper for your company to offshore the work.

Computer engineers should always have work.


Haha, dream on.



The entire high tech and computer industry has already moved on to China and India. The demand for people like us (EE, CE, SE, CS) in North America is currently at an unprecedented low; the only companies that will hire us are the ones that can't afford (or are too stubborn/proud) to outsource to India or China.

Most of my fellow engineering friends are unemployed now, or fighting for jobs to make $30-40 thousand per year, jobs that don't really offer any promise aside from being "experience." Even a 3 year business degree will earn you more than that.

Also, as an Electrical Eng, we do almost as much programming as a Comp Eng. The programming that a Comp Eng does is also much less than that which a Software Eng does. A Software Eng is taught to approach coding like an engineer; it's all about the design process. They are teaching you to become the indestructible coder who can apply his skills to any challenge, any situation. The Comp Sci is taught how to apply his knowledge in a scientific way, it's more of a research oriented program, and this results in an education that focuses towards academics instead of applications. This is why so many Comp Sci students graduate to a dissapointing job market; instead of coding artificial intelligence or distributed computing machines, they end up joining a code team to find bugs in a program for a store's inventory database. Most Comp Sci jobs are not very glamorous.

If you like electronics, Comp Eng or Elec Eng are for you. If you dislike electronics, Comp Sci or Software Eng is for you. If you dislike coding, Comp Sci and Software are not for you. If you strongly dislike coding, Comp Eng is not for you either. We do code in Elec Eng, but it's only required up to the 3rd year level. Beyond that it's your choice.


Also, at McMaster Uni in Hamilton, you can take a 5 year combined degree called Engineering and Management. It means you can choose your 4-year degree in whatever discipline, and you take an extra 20 courses in business -- these 20 courses are the required courses for a 3 year degree in commerce. Other schools you can take similar programs at are Western, Ottawa, and possibly Queens. McMaster in addition offers you one year's credit towards your MBA after this 5 year program, as does Ottawa, and York's Schulich school of business. I intend on completing my one year MBA at one of these three schools.

Engineering and Science are interesting fields, but they aren't the big money making fields they once were.

[Cyber6]

With that said, I honestly don't think it matters if you want to work in the software industry. Many companies view the two fields in a very similar light -- they're both 'university-grade programmers'. I've met a mix of CS,SE,CE, and even EE, in all sorts of software-oriented positions...


Agree with supernerd... (gee does that make me a nerd too???... :eek: )

In any case.. choose whichever "tickles your fancy"... cause baby, you are not going anywhere unless you actually like it. Is hard enough for us people who like it.. imagine how hard is for the one who don't even like it. ;)


C.

[m77m7]

Typical arrogance from an engineering grad. Coding and programming are such a small part of comp sci in both the academic and practical ("real world") sense. Engineers aren't professional until they get their P.Eng.

Also, India and China (and Taiwan) have engineers as well who "take" your jobs as you are are talking about. There are many other things in your post that are very ill-informed, but the most outrageous one is the implication that comp sci's don't move up from coding. They can become team leads, project managers, development managers, VPs, consultants, and many many more (think graphics an AI). If you go into consulting, it is unlikely that you will write any code whatsoever. Its all about requirement studies and other written work.

Your observations may be true for your particular workplace, but not true in general.

While I think both are similar and have some similar knowledge, the Computer Engineer has a different life span than the Comp Sci grad.

If you are doing compsci for code related research then it's excellent. If you like code related research I don't recommend engineering. A lot of engineers go for graduate studies but the people I know who were interested in programming and grad studies eventually ended up in computer science anyways...with great hassle. If you want to do hardware research (nanotech or whatever) then engineering is for you.

My only problem with recommending someone get a compsci degree is that someone in India or another developing country can do it better and cheaper. Your job is only here till it becomes cheaper for your company to offshore the work.

Computer engineers should always have work. We are the people that develop the systems and ideas. Sure compsci's can do it too but every R&D company I've known employs engineers for development and testing. The computer science grads do coding of all types (compilers, drivers, applications, etc) but the original idea usually comes from the higher ups and those people are usually engineers. Engineers are professionals. Comp sci's aren't considered professionals.

An engineer will start off writing code but there is an opportunity to move up. Engineers are exposed to project management, ethics, ecomonics, etc. and are pushed to thinking about the higher level before thinking about the specifics. They still learn all the theory and practical applications but they are also given a strong dose of management.

I know a lot of rich compsci's who work in great fields but I know a lot more compsci's who work in call centres for software companies while the engineers work in the head office.

------

Oh and about the EE vs CE thing. CE is not ~= CS and every employer I've talked to understands that. EE and CE are similar but when asked by people who don't know my explanation of the difference is this.

EE = hardware w/ very little sw experience
CE = software/hardware w/ little attention to hardware applications (ie, power although it's really easy and the concepts were taught to the CE anyways)
SE = software w/ no hw. Their knowledge of hardware is usually equivalent to that of a compsci but their attention to design and project management is far superior to anything an EE or CE sees for project management.

The CE is the middle ground but usually it's the person who is interested in integration. I might not design the radio in a car but I'm the person the electrical engineer needs to make sure the computer integrates with it. They are all important and I've seen nearly equal job opportunities for all of them. Also, don't forget that engineering is not that specific. I know CE's that are resevoir engineers and Civil's that are doing programming. You can do anything you want with an engineering degree.