Let's talk NΨ

[mystro]

Comon, I know you want to, last year we had a few people going into the program, so let's have a quick count of who is still here and why don't I know you IRL :D

[KennethToronto]

are you going into 3rd year eng. sci?

[Rebel_lord]

I rmbing specifically applying for this program because I didn't want to go in to UofT and I wanted to show my mom that I did actually apply to UofT.

lol

[mystro]

are you going into 3rd year eng. sci?

2nd :\

[thephenom]

2nd :\
You shouldn't call it engsci..... use the proper symbols. :twisted:

[mystro]

You shouldn't call it engsci..... use the proper symbols. :twisted:

lol
somehow I never got to having Tsai on my keyboard, but here you go, N¨

[Coolin]

I'm going into NSci next year.

[65505201]

4th year biomed :p

[evman150]

The Greek letter psi is actually pronounced "puh-SEE".

FYI.

[laser7500]

I'm going into NSci next year.

Same.

Actually didn't plan to get in, but applied anyway, so here I am. Original idea was to go into Chem Eng. Gonna give it a shot, and if I do "well" (read: not get completely destroyed), I'll stay with it, if not, transfer to Chem.

Yay for realistic expectations!

[kingsley]

The Greek letter psi is actually pronounced "puh-SEE".

FYI.

Sounds like pussy?

[ViperZ]

engsci sux - end of story (really).

ELEC 0T3 + PEY.

Now back to business...

1). No one in the States (and even outside of Ontario) knows what the heck that program is, so even my friends who graduated from eng.sci elec. option say that they graduated from elec. eng.

2). Very very few companies (99% are located in Ontario) would prefer to hire eng.sci grad over grad from another option.

3). If you are going to eng.sci, you MUST go to grad. school, because all the cool eng.sci options start from there - aero, biomed, nano, etc. (4th year = 1 year of specialization for eng.sci's = nothing).

[evman150]

Sounds like pussy?

No, that would be PUH-see.

Psi is said "puh-SEE". Very short quick "puh".

[shinjiplus]

Same.

Actually didn't plan to get in, but applied anyway, so here I am. Original idea was to go into Chem Eng. Gonna give it a shot, and if I do "well" (read: not get completely destroyed), I'll stay with it, if not, transfer to Chem.

Yay for realistic expectations!

that's a common reason for most people to be in eng sci.

it's also a stupid reason (i know from experience).

if you like chem and want to do chem then do yourself a favour and switch back into chemical.

no sense in doing something just to "not get completely destroyed".

[mintchoco]

engsci sux - end of story (really).

ELEC 0T3 + PEY.

Now back to business...

1). No one in the States (and even outside of Ontario) knows what the heck that program is, so even my friends who graduated from eng.sci elec. option say that they graduated from elec. eng.

2). Very very few companies (99% are located in Ontario) would prefer to hire eng.sci grad over grad from another option.

3). If you are going to eng.sci, you MUST go to grad. school, because all the cool eng.sci options start from there - aero, biomed, nano, etc. (4th year = 1 year of specialization for eng.sci's = nothing).

Yo ViperZ...tsk tsk!

1) True. If you want to go into other professions - business, law, etc...nobody knows what EngSci is.

2) A lot of companies would prefer EngSci grads, just that very few look for jobs since most go to grad school...and generally the ones that look for jobs don't have excellent marks.

3) True, if you don't do grad school in aero, biomed, or nano you're kinda screwed. But you don't need grad school for options like comp and elec.

But the end suggestion - go elsewhere, much easier. EngSci isn't worth it.

[ViperZ]

YKC, I have seen a boatload of eng.sci's with B.A.Sc. looking for a job after we graduated... :confused:

[robattoronto]

LOL! :lol:

The Greek letter psi is actually pronounced "puh-SEE".

FYI.

[greenlief]

Going into 3rd year NSCI, Aero option. I'm not getting all the hate. It's a great program if you can handle it. Personally, I wouldn't feel satisfied in a regular engineering program. It's been my experience that the people who claim it is a useless waste of time are the ones who feel it unjust they didn't get accepted - so I would take their opinions with a grain of salt.

You'd be a fool to think that a company wouldn't hire an NSCI graduate over a regular graduate. (considering all other things equal) Yes, marks are still very important - NSCI is NOT going to give you a golden ticket to any job but it does give the student an edge.

"Actually didn't plan to get in, but applied anyway, so here I am. Original idea was to go into Chem Eng. Gonna give it a shot, and if I do "well" (read: not get completely destroyed), I'll stay with it, if not, transfer to Chem."

I'm going to have to say that you are probably wasting your time. There is no point going to NSCI unless it is the only way to get an undergraduate degree in a particular field; ie) Aero, Nano, Biomed, etc OR you already know that you will be entering Grad school and would rather start taking grad-oriented courses for the second half of your undergraduate degree. Even though I intended to enter Aero all along, the first two years were absolutely exhausting and very often I really felt I was wasting my time. Because there are so many options, they will make you take some things that you really, really, REALLY just don't care about. If you have any sort of interest in Chemical Engineering, you should just go into it right from the beginning. If you do decide to stick with NSCI, be prepared for the most stressful 2 years of your life. 8 hours sleep will be a luxury. Given the option you will sacrifice your infant sister for a day off. Looking back actually it's really quite fun. It's like a war. It leaves a scar. I've actually got a nice permanent scar on my hand from design project which is really quite funny when I think about it.

I agree that the options Electrical and Computer are useless, because one could simply take Electrical or Computer from year 1 with better marks and less unimportant classes (..cough..Bio...cough..)

If you are going to eng.sci, you MUST go to grad. school, because all the cool eng.sci options start from there - aero, biomed, nano, etc. (4th year = 1 year of specialization for eng.sci's = nothing).

Pretty much true, except there are 2 years of specialization for NSCI's. 2 years preparation for graduate school will help out quite a bit.

[Nai]

Well, I have mixed feeling about NSCI:

My main reason for coming to the program was not the program itself, but my situation. Thinking back to the night I made my decision, I had barely glanced over the program details before I decided against going to Waterloo and instead decided to stick with my friends who were going to UofT which supposedly had a nightlife. Little did I know how much free-time NSCI would actually permit :cheesygri

Going into the program, I had no idea what I wanted to do four years later so by keeping an open mind I managed to extract what little enjoyment I could from most of the courses during the first two years (what can I say, I'm a masochist). Now after two years and some biomed lab experience, I still have no idea what option to choose (well, almost no idea, as I am caught between Biomed and Elec).

As for employability, I can tell you as a fact that some employers in the GTA do know about and prefer NSCIs:

Halfway through July I decided that I was not ready to restrict myself to an option so I went jobhunting and landed a PEY in the power-sector partially because my interviewers knew about NSCI.

[mintchoco]

YKC, I have seen a boatload of eng.sci's with B.A.Sc. looking for a job after we graduated... :confused:

There are a boatload MORE elecs and comps looking for jobs than EngScis thou, that's for sure. The EngScis you knew prolly weren't too bright...yes, those people slip thru the cracks... :-0

[Coolin]

I was just wondering, how popular are each of the options? As in the % of the year going into each option.

[-=Wraith=-]

NSci SUX! Ruined my life :evil:

/thread

[mintchoco]

I was just wondering, how popular are each of the options? As in the % of the year going into each option.

I think it varies from year to year, but generally Elec tends to be the most popular just because it seems to open up the most doors.

The *top* people go into Elec and Comp...the people lower on the bell curve go to other options like Aero, BioMed, MSE, etc...that's been the general trend

[Nai]

I think it varies from year to year, but generally Elec tends to be the most popular just because it seems to open up the most doors.

The *top* people go into Elec and Comp...the people lower on the bell curve go to other options like Aero, BioMed, MSE, etc...that's been the general trend

When did you graduate (from Elec I presume)??

Biomed was by far the most popular option as of last year's grad statistics with ~50-70 ppl IIRC.
Elec/Comp only had around 20 grads.

I could probably dig up the actual statistics if anyone is interested as I have them stored in an email somewhere.

Regarding the curve, to my knowledge the truly crazy people usually go into physics as most of them are set on becoming profs anyways. Since the focus for the first two years of NSCI is mainly theory, most of these people tend to be at the front of the curve going into third year.

As for the rest of us (there is no way that you would see me in physics), option choices are a tossup between what people enjoy doing, what people are good at doing, and what option is practical based on the individual's future goals. I would agree that elec is probably a broad program with immediate employment potential, but not everyone wants to work for the power industry, build/design circuits, or program as a job.

[Coolin]

How about Nano?

[mystro]

How about Nano?

nano is the only reason I'm in this program.

For some reason, people seem to think that the nano trend has already passed (this was a VERY common thing I've heard from people in my first year class) and so they think I'm crazy for going into it, yet every day I see new breakthroughs in nanotech that are simply amazing.

Most of the people in my class (0T8, or 2nd years now) are there for aerospace. I'm not sure why, but they are. There are other ways to get into aero (ie. the more traditional mech program, if I understand correctly), so I think it's kind of silly to break yourself over engsci with aero.

The nerdier group of people (yes, even in engsci there are different levels of nerds :P, although in the end we all are) generally want to do Biomed, and/or physics. From the people i spoke to, most of them never want to leave the lab and would prefer to be told and just research rather than head their own projects at some point down the line (I've heard this from three of the top ten students in my year).

Now, as far as hating/loving engsci, this is silly.

People say it ruined their lives. I think this is rediculous and ********. If by the end of first year you didn't realize it wasn't for you, then there's little to do to help you. For those entering engsci that have gotten their frosh book, you should notice somewhere around there (at least it was in there last year), that engsci has a 33% drop out rate first year. This drop out rate is very quickly realized after first semester. Mind you, most of the people switching after first semester did not actually fail the program, they simply realized it was not for them.

I'll be honest, I have a very mixed love/hate relationship with engsci. The amount of work is absolutely astonishing sometimes. Around 3/4 of the year through I was scraping motivation out of the buttom of the barrel and I think more than anything the friday nights at O'grady's got me through this year more than anything else ;) but I know why I am here, and I know what I want with this program. I want to go into nano. I know I can do it from elec, or even chem, but the buttom line is, I've had profs from other universities call me and tell me not to go to their school to study but to come to UofT and study at Eng Sci if I want to pursue nanotech (this is no lie, one specific prof from McMaster 4th year engineering told me to turn down my scholarship and study at nsci because their program was simply not adequate).

If you're in this program because you're unsure, you're wasting your time. Don't feel like you have something to prove, because believe me, there is nothing to prove. This program is very competative, but if you want to do chem, elec, civil, mech, or industrial, go into these streams directly, there is no point.

When I was going into this program last year I was also hearing the same words I am saying now, and I was going to myself "yeah whatever, can't be that bad". It's worse.

If you want to save yourself some time and you're unsure, go to http://engsci.skule.ca
Go to the survival guide and click on the Switch/Stay link. Read the articles posted there and decide before you commit yourself to this program.

Final thought, don't let this program get to you if you do stay with it. Just keep your mind on the goal, and watch as other people around you freak out and start getting gray hairs (at first I thought I was imaginging this, but then my friends started pointing it out as well). Just remmeber, two years down the road of engsci, life is supposed to become easier (I'll let ya know in a year or so how true this is).

Good luck and I hope to see you frosh week, I'll be the very purple guy running around, not that that's very descriptive, but I do encourage you all to dye yourselves purple and come and have a good time, engsci, elec, chem, whoever :)

Time to get drunk :D

P.S. I am fairly approachable (especially if you happen to be a chick ;) ) so feel free to drop me a pm, email, add me on msn or whatever if you have questions about engsci or any of the other disciplines, I know at least a few people in all of them, :D

edit: this is for you in specific, Coolin, I notice you are from alberta. It is my understanding that the university you guys have there also has a fairly strong nanotech program, I encourage you to check it out before you commit yourself to UofT, you can always switch next semester =)

[shinjiplus]

i'm guessing mintchoco went to actel, as they miss cali!

elec and comp have pitiful numbers in 4th year, as Nai said, they won't have more than ~25 this year. there are going to be less than 10 people in the comp option in 4th year.

and all those people going to aero are in for a surprise when they finally realize that they'll need a masters or else there's no aero jobs out there for them.

[Coolin]

Wow mystro, very long and informative feedback there. Who knew that the best place I'd find to learn about EngSci was at a forum full of cheapskakes?

Myself, I don't know what I'm going to do in engineering.
I personally like computers, but I don't know if I want it to be my job or just a hobby.
Electrical seems good because I can do almost anything. But I hear jobs in that area are low.
Nanotechnology: I haven't heard about the word yet until this year, and I still don't know much about it. But my Biology teacher was adamant that I think about going into it. It seems pretty interesting, but I don't know if I'll like physics at such a tiny level. I like classical physics with nice, predictable things. :)
Physics: I'm more of a theoretical person, so this seems good. Physics seems like the bridge between engineering and science.

What confuses me is that many people say EngSci is a good choice for people who know they're going into graduate studies. And I also hear that EngSci will kill your marks. Don't graduate schools require excellent marks for entry? Or do they make an exception for those poor EngScis with white hair? :p

Sorry, I do not happen to be a chick. :(
Hope you're still approachable though. :p

The University of Alberta, being chosen as the National Institute of Nanotechnology, is apparently the best Nanotechnology institute in Canada. (Much to the chagrin of the University of Toronto, which likes to think that it's the best in everything.) However, from what I've heard, there's no undergrad Nano program, and that if you wanted to enter graduate studies in Nano there, you would have to go through their Electrical or Engineering Physics program.

I choose Engineering Science partially because of the ability to wait 2 years before specializing. I'm pretty slow in deciding these things, I didn't even know I wanted to go into Engineering until several months ago.

[mystro]

Wow mystro, very long and informative feedback there. Who knew that the best place I'd find to learn about EngSci was at a forum full of cheapskakes?


I'm not cheap I'm jewish ;), anyhow, hehe


Myself, I don't know what I'm going to do in engineering.
I personally like computers, but I don't know if I want it to be my job or just a hobby.
that was me up to the point where I saw the OAUC list of people applying to comp sci in 2003-2004. There was something like 30,000 applications to UofT, it was simply too much competition for me to want to put up with in four years ;\


Electrical seems good because I can do almost anything. But I hear jobs in that area are low.

eh... I don't know, most of my elec friends found summer jobs, and I know a few PEY students working in silicon valley, elec is actually what I intend to do if I decide against nano at some point


Nanotechnology: I haven't heard about the word yet until this year, and I still don't know much about it. But my Biology teacher was adamant that I think about going into it. It seems pretty interesting, but I don't know if I'll like physics at such a tiny level. I like classical physics with nice, predictable things. :)

Nanotech is a fascinating field that is mostly theory, (which will be touched upon in your physics comment). If you want to learn more about it, check out foresight.org, they have a lot of articles, many in laymens terms, you may or may not enjoy :)


Physics: I'm more of a theoretical person, so this seems good. Physics seems like the bridge between engineering and science.

Ok. IT's funny you should note this. Engineering Science as a whole was created 50 some odd years ago (I *think*) to bridge the gap between Engineering and Science, this was the main purpose. If you like theory, you'll enjoy most of the courses in engineering science as a whole, and the physics options may actually be for you :)


What confuses me is that many people say EngSci is a good choice for people who know they're going into graduate studies.

The main thing about engsci is how much theory you'll be doing. That is, a lot. It will prepare you for the type of research you'll be looking forward to in grad school, although I am in no position to speak yet as I am only in my 2nd year even though I try and put it off as though I know everything :P


And I also hear that EngSci will kill your marks. Don't graduate schools require excellent marks for entry? Or do they make an exception for those poor EngScis with white hair? :p

Yes, yes and no.

EngSci will kill your marks. I entered with a 94% and came out with a 71%, it was quite a shot to my ego and it still hurts now.
Actually, part of the rason I did poorly was because I had a laptop, which I recommend not getting, and the othe reason I did poorly was because I wasn't too motivated, which is just a whole other can of warms.

If you talk to the engsci councillors, they will tell you that grad schools, medical schools and law schools DO recognize engineering, and engineering science, to some extent. However, if you want to get into law school I'd recommend going to a school like York and then going from there, you'll get better marks and have a better time.


Sorry, I do not happen to be a chick. :(
Hope you're still approachable though. :p

That's ok :) , I have a gf anyway, it's just nice to see girls in engineering sometimes :P, I am very approachable, drop me an email/pm/msn message and we can have a chat at any time, the weather in TO right now is really ****** so I'm stuck at home until at least 8-9pm when I intend to go and drink myself silly.


The University of Alberta, being chosen as the National Institute of Nanotechnology, is apparently the best Nanotechnology institute in Canada. (Much to the chagrin of the University of Toronto, which likes to think that it's the best in everything.) However, from what I've heard, there's no undergrad Nano program, and that if you wanted to enter graduate studies in Nano there, you would have to go through their Electrical or Engineering Physics program.

Nothing for me to add here really, hehe,


I choose Engineering Science partially because of the ability to wait 2 years before specializing. I'm pretty slow in deciding these things, I didn't even know I wanted to go into Engineering until several months ago.

Ok, this is a reason that a lot of people choose this program. It's not a terrible reason, so long as you realize duirng first/second semester what you really want to do, don't spend the rest of your university career trying to figure that out, spend the first few months :)

Finally, I again reiterate how important it is for you to dye yourself purple. You will have a blast if you do, and I suggest taking the subway even if you don't have to, just to see the look on people's faces :)

Cheers

[mintchoco]

i'm guessing mintchoco went to actel, as they miss cali!


Very correct! I was 0T3+PEY...all of the *top* people in 0T3 all went into EngSci elec - that was by far the most popular option. The governor general award winner was an EngSci comp. I myself was a comp.

Anyhow, if I had to do it again, I wouldn't. It does kill your marks, and the stress and everything is simply not worth it. I had a mid-80s average coming out, but I had to work *way* too hard for that.

Basically if you don't want to be a prof - want to do business, meds, law, whatever...or even just simply get a job - there are other routes to get there...and EngSci is not one of them.

[Coolin]

that was me up to the point where I saw the OAUC list of people applying to comp sci in 2003-2004. There was something like 30,000 applications to UofT, it was simply too much competition for me to want to put up with in four years ;\
How do you check for the number of applicants to a certain program? That would be some interesting information to know about.


Nanotech is a fascinating field that is mostly theory, (which will be touched upon in your physics comment). If you want to learn more about it, check out foresight.org, they have a lot of articles, many in laymens terms, you may or may not enjoy :)
Thanks, I'll check it out.


Ok. IT's funny you should note this. Engineering Science as a whole was created 50 some odd years ago (I *think*) to bridge the gap between Engineering and Science, this was the main purpose. If you like theory, you'll enjoy most of the courses in engineering science as a whole, and the physics options may actually be for you :)
Yes, that's the thing that allured me into Engineering Science in the first place. I believe that all areas of knowledge benefit one another. Science benefits engineering... engineering benefits science... even art and science benefit each other. The entire trend of specializing nowadays is against that belief.

Engineering Science seems to be the least "specialist" engineering program in Canada; they try to teach some of the science and theory behind the practical application. All the other programs I've seen force you to specialize in the first year, or upon direct entry into University (Waterloo...).


The main thing about engsci is how much theory you'll be doing. That is, a lot. It will prepare you for the type of research you'll be looking forward to in grad school, although I am in no position to speak yet as I am only in my 2nd year even though I try and put it off as though I know everything :P
I like research. :)


Actually, part of the rason I did poorly was because I had a laptop, which I recommend not getting
Woops. Too late.


That's ok :) , I have a gf anyway, it's just nice to see girls in engineering sometimes :P
If it helps any, our valedictorian, who just happens to be female, is also coming to UT for Engineering Science. That makes it a 50/50 gender split for our school and Engineering at U of T.


Ok, this is a reason that a lot of people choose this program. It's not a terrible reason, so long as you realize duirng first/second semester what you really want to do, don't spend the rest of your university career trying to figure that out, spend the first few months :)
Doesn't that ruin the point of having two years before specialization instead of just one year? =/


Finally, I again reiterate how important it is for you to dye yourself purple. You will have a blast if you do, and I suggest taking the subway even if you don't have to, just to see the look on people's faces :)
I'll think about it. :p

[shinjiplus]

Very correct! I was 0T3+PEY...all of the *top* people in 0T3 all went into EngSci elec - that was by far the most popular option. The governor general award winner was an EngSci comp. I myself was a comp.

Anyhow, if I had to do it again, I wouldn't. It does kill your marks, and the stress and everything is simply not worth it. I had a mid-80s average coming out, but I had to work *way* too hard for that.

Basically if you don't want to be a prof - want to do business, meds, law, whatever...or even just simply get a job - there are other routes to get there...and EngSci is not one of them.

haha i'm 0T6+PEY Eng Sci COMP... and we have no girls in our class at all! we're actually the second-smallest option, and we may be the smallest due to drop outs.

Ok. IT's funny you should note this. Engineering Science as a whole was created 50 some odd years ago (I *think*) to bridge the gap between Engineering and Science, this was the main purpose. If you like theory, you'll enjoy most of the courses in engineering science as a whole, and the physics options may actually be for you

i was under the impression that a bunch of the "old boys" wanted to make the hardest damned engineering they could come up with, and called it engineering physics (now known as engineering science).

[laser7500]

I just thought of something to ask here.

A large portion of students move from eng sci to another program after first term or first year. While it is not the case for everyone, I bet a fair portion of this is because of failure/near failure. Now, if these students were to switch programs and preform well in their new program and applied to a graduate program, how would the marks in the time they spent in eng sci factor into this, and more importantly, how would it affect their application to grad school? I'm not exactly familiar with how GPA works in a case like this, so I'm curious.

[mystro]

How do you check for the number of applicants to a certain program? That would be some interesting information to know about.

I suppose this isn't something that's released in alberta. We have a book in ontario released by the OUAC showing statistics for every program, quite nifty.


I was under the impression that a bunch of the "old boys" wanted to make the hardest damned engineering they could come up with, and called it engineering physics (now known as engineering science).


From what I understand, engineering physics is the equivalent at Queens and McMaster... the profs I spoke to claim it was for the purpose of uniting the science and engineering portions, although I may be wrong



I just thought of something to ask here.

A large portion of students move from eng sci to another program after first term or first year. While it is not the case for everyone, I bet a fair portion of this is because of failure/near failure.

Not true at all, there is roughly a 33% drop out rate, however if you speak to the councillors for engsci, they will let you know that most of the people move out of their own accord, very few move out due to grades. I had one person in specific who moved out with a 4.0 GPA to do Civ, after first semester. Then, he did not enjoy civ, and moved to York for this year to start again and study with the purpose of going into med school.


Now, if these students were to switch programs and preform well in their new program and applied to a graduate program, how would the marks in the time they spent in eng sci factor into this, and more importantly, how would it affect their application to grad school? I'm not exactly familiar with how GPA works in a case like this, so I'm curious.

you'll have to ask someone who has actually switched or is considering switching as they'll most likely have talked about this with the nsci councillors :)

Cheers

[shinjiplus]

From what I understand, engineering physics is the equivalent at Queens and McMaster... the profs I spoke to claim it was for the purpose of uniting the science and engineering portions, although I may be wrong


our program was originally called engineering physics.

[mystro]

our program was originally called engineering physics.

fair enough, I am going based on second hand accounts as it is :)

what was the reason for the renaming?