Best University for med undergrad?

[fizzy69]

Anyone know?

[Gloaming]

I would argue UWO since all a med or dental school wants is a high average. The admissions boards don't look at UWO as an easy school either, so a 90 average at UWO won't be brushed off as being a result of an easy program. Stay away from UofT, especially there Immunology undergrad as it is renowned for being a med school killer.

One other benefit of Western is that it has BOTH a med and dental school. This increases your chance of getting in early, with some people being admitted into dents after 2nd year undergrad (about 2/class) and about 10 getting into Western meds after 3rd year of undergrad.

[0T6]

Med undergrad would be the actual MD program.

I think your actual question though is what university's the best if you want to go to med school?

I don't think there is a best.. go to the school you feel most comfortable with and where you believe you'll have the most success, and this often involves a lot more than just the school itself (i.e. living conditions, being away from home, friends who live there).

[fizzy69]

Yah i've heard alot about western

Any others? I wanan be able to enjoy working.. I want to be in a nice campus, with good people. I've heard nothing but bad stuff from UofT

[0T6]

Man there're just too many UT haters.

I went to UT, and while I can't say I had an AMAZING time, I really enjoyed it there and liked being challenged. If you want an easy ride, then don't go to UT.

[lance]

I've heard good things about the McMaster medical program - particularly for women who want to become doctors.

[7thEye]

I dont think this person is asking about which medical school to attend, but rather which undergrad to attend prior to med school. As such, the last comment about mac meds is really not relevant.

Really it does not matter where you go to undergrad...you can go to UofT, Western, Mac, York, Windsor..really wherever you want. And, you can do whatever you want in terms of subject chioce as well, provided you take the basic pre-reqs.

I think the most important thing is to pick a program that will leave you with the a true backup plan should either you not get into medical school or decide down the road that you would rather not spend another 10 years in school after your undergrad.

[0T6]

I dont think this person is asking about which medical school to attend, but rather which undergrad to attend prior to med school. As such, the last comment about mac meds is really not relevant.

Really it does not matter where you go to undergrad...you can go to UofT, Western, Mac, York, Windsor..really wherever you want. And, you can do whatever you want in terms of subject chioce as well, provided you take the basic pre-reqs.

I think the most important thing is to pick a program that will leave you with the a true backup plan should either you not get into medical school or decide down the road that you would rather not spend another 10 years in school after your undergrad.

The most intelligent and rational post I've read here all day.

[Bordello]

I think the med undergrad program you're referring to is called "Life Sciences". They have that at U of T and Queens, but goes under different names at other universities (ie. Biomedical sciences). If you're trying to get into med school, it doesn't matter where you went for undergrad, or what program. All they care is the marks, and whether you have the required courses (mainly 1st year bio/chem/physics/calculus/english).

My undergrad before med school was biochem. I would not recommend that as a major. Unless you like the material (which I found really dry), things will go by very slowly.

As for medical school, you go to whichever you get accepted into. It's so competitive nowadays that even if you're an excellent candidate, there's no sure bet. I went with UOttawa because it's in my hometown, so I can save money and live at home.

[0T6]

I'm taking this topic OT but Bordello how are you liking Ottawa's program? And what year are you in?
I'm starting there in a few weeks and it seems great, especially with all the clinical opportunities you can get into from the get-go.

[dmdsoftware2]

UofT has the best medical program in Canada. Period.

[7thEye]

UofT has the best medical program in Canada. Period.

Uhmm...you are baseing this on what? Have you atteneded all of the medical schools, or do you happen to attend UofT :cheesygri

[lolaleelolo]

skip mcgill for pre-med studies. the WHOLE first year class is full of overachievers who state that they want to go to med school from day 1 (believe me, i know...i am one of them...wish i had gone to a small undergrad-focussed school rather than a large, highly regarded and demanding institution).

go where you will be happy and where you can study something you are interested in. get the best marks possible with the least effort and make sure you have time on the side for extra curriculars.

if i could do it again, i think i would have gone to acadia! still...im in grad school now and saying that i went to mcgill for my undergrad still turns heads.

good luck!

[Mach]

Pretty much, it's hard to say which undergrad program is best for prep to med. What I can recommend is:

1. think outside the bun .. eh i mean ontario. Ontario is reknowned as being the HARDEST place in NORTH AMERICA to get into. This is mainly because of 2 reasons: one, is that they don't have any preference for students, meaning that someone from BC is as likely as someone from ont, as long as they have everything else equal. Other schools prefere their own provincial students and only allowed 2-3 out of province students per year. TWO, the Ontario med schools look at your MCAT first above all else (if they look at the MCAT i mean) That means if you have an under-average MCAT score, but perfect GPA and saved the life of the pope, they don't care. Other schools, particular in the USA, look at MCAT, extracurriculars, marks etc all at once to get a better understanding of the applicant. In ontario, to my knowledge, that's not popularly done.

2. do your research. find out what schools need what and for how long. does a social science count as a 'writing' course? some schools count it, some don't. it's better to start asking schools asap instead of the short time period between when the MCAT is over and applications are due (early oct)

3. Seriously ask yourself if you want to be a dr, or do your parents want you to be a dr? while being a dr is a good job, it is a lot of work (in and out of school) and the money is good but not great. Dr have to work like every day, longer than 9-5, around SICK ppl. You see people when they are looking their WORSE. This job requires a lot of compassion and patience and dedication. If your in it for the money, fame, or prefix, you might want to do something else.

4. As someone already mentioned, back up plan is crucial. im sure ur very smart and bright and top of your class etc but the reality is, there aren't enough med school seats to meet the demand and the vast majority don't get chosen. Take other courses outside of life sci (ie sociology, philosophy, psychology, etc.) to see what you like. Pharmacy, vet, grad schools are all very good alternatives, arguabley better depending on who you are. Grad schools are especially appealing (to me) because you can eventually get ur phd (prefix dr) and you're your own boss too. so realli, just think outside of the "med school and med school only" mentality. its scary i know, but what's even scarier is being in 4th year and not knowing what you want to do because u can't make it into med schools.

5. Get your head out of your books and live life. Join things and be different. I mean, the # of applicants who are all cookie cutter students are so annoyingly overwhelming: "did well in high school and university, joined the science and chess club, volunteered in hospital" blah blah blah. they've seen it a million times. You want to do something different? Try this: my verbal reasoning teacher JOINED the army, became ORDAINED and goes to hospitals for 'last rites' or smtg. THAT'S different. And she got into Queens first cut.

Being a dr is a very important profession. it's rewarding but don't kid yourself, it's a lot of hard work from the minute you want it, till way longer afterwards (student loans will kill ya). Make sure YOU want it.

Good luck with everything and i hope that helps

[Bordello]

TWO, the Ontario med schools look at your MCAT first above all else (if they look at the MCAT i mean) That means if you have an under-average MCAT score, but perfect GPA and saved the life of the pope, they don't care. Other schools, particular in the USA, look at MCAT, extracurriculars, marks etc all at once to get a better understanding of the applicant. In ontario, to my knowledge, that's not popularly done.

Good points. I should add that not every school in Ontario require the MCATs, McMaster and UOttawa do not. They will look at it if you've done it, but it's not mandatory.

[bananaman]

That's true that McMaster and UOttawa don't look at MCAT scores but that speaks volumes about the quality of the program doesn't it?

[0T6]

That's true that McMaster and UOttawa don't look at MCAT scores but that speaks volumes about the quality of the program doesn't it?

Does it? Ottawa's out of region GPA cutoff this year was 3.83.. as far as I know that's the 2nd highest cutoff in Canada and probably North America. (1st highest being their out of province cutoff at 3.87)

And Mac's program is what Harvard based their program-changes on.

[Bordello]

That's true that McMaster and UOttawa don't look at MCAT scores but that speaks volumes about the quality of the program doesn't it?
I'm not sure what you mean. Are you saying that the quality is lower for that reason? The UOttawa med school received a score of 4.51/5.0 (strong) by the Gourman Report, and McMaster received a 4.74/5.0 (very strong). Those are very good scores. They have their reasons for not requiring the MCATs. First of all, the test's main focus is on American schools, since it's an American test. Secondly, doing well or poorly on a test does not determine what kind of a doctor you are. Those two schools in particular are very extra-curricular oriented. While grades are important to them, your experience is even more important. I have friends who got accepted into U of T, Western, Queen's, but didn't even get an interview at UOttawa. They base their judgement on more than just grades and MCAT marks.

[purple_rabbit]

Uhmm...you are baseing this on what? Have you atteneded all of the medical schools, or do you happen to attend UofT :cheesygri

Lol i would say he attended U of T, but yeah there are rankings which support what he said, although I don't care because all I know is that UT's Business program is the BEST :lol: mwuahahahah

[7thEye]

Lol i would say he attended U of T, but yeah there are rankings which support what he said, although I don't care because all I know is that UT's Business program is the BEST :lol: mwuahahahah

I would love to say the same about the computer and engineering programs but I am sure some watertown keeener would ring me out... :D

[blink]

I am currently in medical school and here's my take on things..

1- Pick an undergrad that you will enjoy. You will still have to do that degree for at least 3 years, if not more, so it may as well be something you like. Furthermore, if you enjoy your courses, you will most likely obtain a higher GPA which is important for medical school admissions.

2- Make sure you take the pre-reqs, no matter which degree you choose. The pre-req courses vary between medical schools, as do quotas for out-of-province seats, so factor in everything. Unfortunately, although it is most competitive to get into an Ontario medical school, if your permanent address is from Ontario (and/or you went to high school in Ontario), you can't change your residency too easily (ie. going to Calgary for an undergraduate degree will not make you an Alberta resident). Pre-reqs range from the generic take 1 of each humanities/social science, life science and physical science to specifically asking for English literature.

3- You can factor in courses to help you with the MCAT, since all English-speaking schools (save Ottawa and NOSM) will require the MCAT two years from now (McMaster will need everyone to complete the VR for Sept 2006 applications). Usually, high school equivalents for physics are sufficient, but other courses that may help are organic chemistry, biochemistry, biology, chemistry, etc.

4- Your undergrad university will be your home for the next 3 years, so look into what else will make your time enjoyable - city, program structure, proximity to home, etc. As someone else mentioned, it is VERY important to have a life outside school and academics.

5- Always keep your options open for other opportunities outside medical school, should you either not get into medical school or you decide throughout your degree that medicine is not for you. Certainly not everyone in McGill's science first year class that said they wantd to go to medicine will even be applying 3 years down the road... Most people are not aware of other health care professions. Keep an open mind.

There is no one right undergrad degree for medical school. The people in my class vary from comparative literature to engineering to physiotherapy to health sciences to biochemistry.

Edited to add: All Canadian medical schools produce competent doctors. No one is particularly better than another one, but one may be better suited to your personal learning styles. It would be ridiculous to claim any medical school is superior. (and the Gourman report is very outdated, so that is s terrible source to base any conclusions)

[0T6]

Hey blink.

Just about point 3: NOSM is still going to be no-MCAT too right?

[blink]

Hey blink.

Just about point 3: NOSM is still going to be no-MCAT too right?

Oh yes, I forgot about NOSM. They weren't around when I submitted my applications.. I'll fix that.

[fizzy69]

Wow thanks for the replies! Great help guys!

Well, i've honestly thought about it alot and idealy speaking i want to be plastic surgeon more than just a doc! Anyone have any ideas how that works? I want to be able to run my own business in the future. And what kind of an average am i looking at for next year? My last year in highschool, i'm already stressing over it like hell. I honestly enjoy science, i'm a very scientific/phlisofical person. I like to question every thing and know how everything works. I am NOT a book worm however, and my life outside of acedemics is very important. So i really shoudl start looking at other universities. I wouldn't mind living alone, but how are the finances?

[blink]

One other benefit of Western is that it has BOTH a med and dental school. This increases your chance of getting in early, with some people being admitted into dents after 2nd year undergrad (about 2/class) and about 10 getting into Western meds after 3rd year of undergrad.

I also wanted to stress that going to a university with a medical or dental school certainly does NOT increase your chances of admission. It is not like UWO looks at its own students any differently than other applicants.

Well, i've honestly thought about it alot and idealy speaking i want to be plastic surgeon more than just a doc! Anyone have any ideas how that works? I want to be able to run my own business in the future. And what kind of an average am i looking at for next year? My last year in highschool, i'm already stressing over it like hell. I honestly enjoy science, i'm a very scientific/phlisofical person. I like to question every thing and know how everything works. I am NOT a book worm however, and my life outside of acedemics is very important. So i really shoudl start looking at other universities. I wouldn't mind living alone, but how are the finances?

First, don't be stressing about things like medical school before you are even in university..... enjoy your time in high school (and university!).. especially since plastic surgery will be a long haul in school. First complete your university undegrad (3-4+ years), then complete medical school (3-4 years), then spend another 5 years learning plastic surgery (plus any additional years for subspecialty training).

Definitely look into the different programs offered by different universities (even look outside your province!) to find something that fits well with your interests and goals. If you are planning on going to a university away from home, living alone is an option but MANY more students opt to live in residence or together in houses/apartments to keep costs down and to live with friends, etc. I suggest chatting with your high school guidance counsellor or university admissions to learn more about university living, etc. If finances are a concern, you could be eligible for OSAP.

[dough4you]

If you want to get into medical school, you need high marks. Period. You're competing against other people with close to 4.0 averages. Just because you want to be a plastic surgeon now, doesn't mean you'll still want to be a plastic surgeon later. There are literally hundreds of fields of medicine.
As for all the hard work, tough life, etc. Bullcrap! If you're used to working and studying hard, medicine will not be more difficult, although you definitely will be sleep deprived for at least 9 years of your life, if you choose to specialize. If I could go back in time, I would still go through medicine, and I don't know anyone in medicine who wouldn't. Also, once you finish residency and maybe fellowship, your life becomes much better, financially and socially. As for student loans and such, most people who specialize (ie not family medicine) can pay off their 6 figure loans in a year or two.

If you have any specific questions, email me.

PS the reason why Ottawa U does not use MCAT scores anymore (although they did when I was there) is it is a bilingual progam and the MCAT is an anglophone exam geared towards people who grew up in english speaking North America, and therefore not suited for francophone applicants.

Dough

[sniper_myth]

anyone know how UA is? I called them up and apparently you are considered an Alberta resident if you do your undergrad there so theres a chance I may go there.

[7thEye]

Wow thanks for the replies! Great help guys!

Well, i've honestly thought about it alot and idealy speaking i want to be plastic surgeon more than just a doc! Anyone have any ideas how that works? I want to be able to run my own business in the future. And what kind of an average am i looking at for next year? My last year in highschool, i'm already stressing over it like hell. I honestly enjoy science, i'm a very scientific/phlisofical person. I like to question every thing and know how everything works. I am NOT a book worm however, and my life outside of acedemics is very important. So i really shoudl start looking at other universities. I wouldn't mind living alone, but how are the finances?

Wow I would imagine that being a boob doc would be pretty competative, no? Doesn't everyone want to be a surgeon, let alone a plastic surgeon (maybe some people in meds can clairfy).

Just relax and take it one step at a time man...

[JT94]

Plastics is possibly the most cut-throat field of medicine to secure a residency placement.

Rads, Derm, Opht are up there as well. Why? It's a combination of satisfying lifestyle + pay.

[swedeboy]

anyone know how UA is? I called them up and apparently you are considered an Alberta resident if you do your undergrad there so theres a chance I may go there.


I'm in the med program here at U of A and I've only had good experiences so far. It's a very strong technical program with lots of research opportunities (if you want them in the summers) and the chance to get as much or as little clinical experience before clerkship as you want.

If you have any specific questions feel free to PM me.

[koft]

Wow I would imagine that being a boob doc would be pretty competative, no? Doesn't everyone want to be a surgeon, let alone a plastic surgeon (maybe some people in meds can clairfy).

Just relax and take it one step at a time man...

Actually Derm is consistently the most competitive residency prog in canada, due to its low number I think only 3 - 4 ppl are accepted each year in CaRMS match. If you look at past several years stats, I recall that Internal Meds it picking up steam, while Gen Sx is losing popularity.

Anyways, to answer the person original post, there is no exact good program for getting into meds school. Some undergrad programs are more challenging than other, but you still can get good grades out of it. Sometimes these program offer a better prep for the material to be taught in meds school.

Yet, if you are only in first year, one word of caution, NOT EVERYONE GETS INTO MEDS SCHOOL, do have a backup plan. So don't just take all bird courses that does nothing for you, just in case that you don't get in!

Good Luck

[netgeek]

As of next year Western is dropping its requirments for medicine. Meaning that you DO NOT need to take certain courses or have a certain major. As long as you have a university degree in something, with good grades and a lot of involvement in activities.

Now they did not mention if you still need to take the MCAT. I assume that you dont because if they want people in the arts to apply how do they expect them to do the MCAT?

[blink]

As of next year Western is dropping its requirments for medicine. Meaning that you DO NOT need to take certain courses or have a certain major. As long as you have a university degree in something, with good grades and a lot of involvement in activities.

Now they did not mention if you still need to take the MCAT. I assume that you dont because if they want people in the arts to apply how do they expect them to do the MCAT?

No. UWO plans on keeping the MCAT and GPA requirements.
Besides, it is not any old degree.. you need a 4-year honours degree.

[jabronie505]

and my life outside of acedemics is very important.

i hope you realize that as a plastics surgery resident you will be working 100-120 hours a week, often pulling 28-36 hours shifts with little or no sleep, your work will involve debriding pressure sores & burns and trauma work and NOT boob jobs, and this will be for 5-7 years AFTER med school... in other words don't get too fond of your life outside of medicine

and if you're already stressing now just wait until you're a resident... undergrad was a joke, med school was easy, but residency will push you to the edge, especially a surgical residency, and frankly simply not worth it

good luck :cheesygri

[yan84]

i hope you realize that as a plastics surgery resident you will be working 100-120 hours a week, often pulling 28-36 hours shifts with little or no sleep, your work will involve debriding pressure sores & burns and trauma work and NOT boob jobs, and this will be for 5-7 years AFTER med school... in other words don't get too fond of your life outside of medicine

and if you're already stressing now just wait until you're a resident... undergrad was a joke, med school was easy, but residency will push you to the edge, especially a surgical residency, and frankly simply not worth it

good luck :cheesygri

Im not interested in med school. But please do explain why residency will push you to the edge? What are involved and how stressful is it?

[JS2K6]

I haven't heard anything about UWO taking away the MCAT as an admission requirement. Although they removed the prerequisite courses, you can't apply until at least 4th year undergrad. I'm not sure if the other Ontario med schools have made any changes re: years of study.

As for the question about how popular different specialties are, you can see a ton of different statistics at the CaRMS website (http://www.carms.ca). This year, 98% of people who wanted general surgery as their first choice discipline got it somewhere in Canada. For the sake of comparison, it was 40% for dermatology this year, 54% for plastic surgery, and 46% of emergency medicine. 20% of the 1400 applicants to CaRMS ranked a surgical discipline (including obstetrics/gynecology) as their first choice.

[fizzy69]

Yah, Why is will it push you to the edge? My idea of plastic surgery is not simply confined the ideal 'boob job'. I know the kinds of patients i will have, and i feel very comfortable with that. It actually motivates me more, knowing that i'm brightening of peoples lives. 100-200 hours a week? Really? How so? Why?

Now i'm just confused as hell. Please clarify!

[reflex]

Anyone know what kind of average a person needs to get into Life Sciences at U of T downtown?

Edit: Or in fact the average that you need for Life Sciences/BioMed at other unis? Western, Queens, Mac, Waterloo?

[fizzy69]

Last i checked was

80%+ In Chem Bio Calc Eng
Physics strongly recommended

[reflex]

Last i checked was

80%+ In Chem Bio Calc Eng
Physics strongly recommended

This is for U of T St. George Campus? When didja last check? Plus..you guys think this is a good program to go for if i'm planning for med school?

[JS2K6]

A 12+ hour day during a surgery residency is not uncommon. Start rounding on patients at 5:30-6 AM, and leave past 6 PM. So that's already >60 hours in a week. Then you're on call in the hospital a couple of nights a week and have a good chance of being up all night... so that would add about 24 hours to our total. That leaves us at >84 hours. You're technically allowed to go home the next day "post-call" but residents especially in surgery often stay around anyway because they don't want to look lazy/weak. And you'd be on call a weekend or two per month. Depending on the program it could be just one full day (e.g. Saturday morning until Sunday morning) or even the whole weekend... they can do this to you by saying you're on "home call" for the whole weekend and so you're allowed to be at home whenever there's nothing going on at the hospital... of course, when you're on a busy service, that could be little to never. So adding this to our total and we're at well over 100 hours. When I was doing my ortho rotation, one of the residents I worked with said that he had hardly seen his wife in over 2 weeks because of the long hours and the call switch that put him on call for 2 straight full weekends. Bottom line is that you'd better be passionate about that particular field of surgery to subject yourself to that for 5-7 years.

It's great that you find plastic surgery interesting, but there are a huge number of people who end up doing something different from what they thought they would do on the first day of med school. Try to keep an open mind. Good luck.

[jabronie505]

Yah, Why is will it push you to the edge? My idea of plastic surgery is not simply confined the ideal 'boob job'. I know the kinds of patients i will have, and i feel very comfortable with that. It actually motivates me more, knowing that i'm brightening of peoples lives. 100-200 hours a week? Really? How so? Why?

Now i'm just confused as hell. Please clarify!

are you sure you know the type of patients you will have?
-the ungrateful, belligerent alcoholic who got punched in the face and now you have to care for him at 3 in the morning
-the demented 100 year old patient who has 500 medical problems and is bedridden and now has a huge pressure sore for you to fix
-but maybe you think cosmetics will be better... you'll still have to deal with the entitled, demanding patient who will expect nothing but perfection

life as a resident sucks. as a first year surgical resident be prepared to be on-call once every 3 or 4 days. being on call means that you start your day around 6 am and you stay in the hospital for the next 28-36 hours. while on-call you are often the only doctor around and you are expected to care for every patient on your service and deal with any medical emergencies that they may have... you will also be expected to do any consults that come out of the emergency department and admit any new patients to your service. i have done calls where i was up on my feet and running around for 36 hours straight... no sleep, maybe 1 meal and a cup of coffee, and lucky to get a bathroom break (hence the prerequisite for an iron stomach and a steel bladder)... once your call is over you can go home and sleep but you are expected to work the very next day, 12 hours later. and for all of this you get your measly resident's salary which if you calculate it out may work out to about $10/hr despite the MD after your name

and as a 5th year chief resident some will argue that it actually gets worse... even though you're doing call at home you're on call once every 2 days (if you're really unlucky it could be everyday)... while on-call you will be expected to take phone calls and be available to come into hospital 24 hrs a day... describing how hard residency is in words is difficult... most people don't know how bad it is until they actually do it

like someone else mentioned earlier think hard before deciding to do medicine... you'll make good money eventually but it is generally agreed upon in medical circles that there are easier ways to make moey if that's what you want. even the respect isn't what it once used to be. i had a patient once that wouldn't let me examine him unless i fetched him a cup of coffee first which is a tad annoying when it's 3 am and you've been up for 20 hours. i've had several patients answer their cell phones and carry on a conversation for several minutes in the middle of a visit. just last week a doc at my hospital was assaulted by a patient's husband. i remember as a medical student i was having coffee with 2 other residents, a fellow, and an attending physician and all of us said we wouldn't do it again if we had a choice. ok that's enough ranting from me. perhaps there are other physicians or residents on this forum who feel differently and can offer you a different perspective. (like a radiologist :cheesygri )

[fizzy69]

Wow... Thnanks for the input guys, seriously. Big help to me!

The thing that keeps me going, is the fact that i believe that all my life prior becoming a doc will be a drainage on the world, and in a wierd way becoming a doc, helping people out will be my way of giving back to the world. My way of making a difference. There may be easier ways of making money, but i really value making a diffrence.

I'm hearing lots of negatives, any positives?

[trusoulja2g]

Health Science at Mac is the best pre-med program in the country. It's the same faculty with the same profs as Mac's med school, the coursework is the most like med school, easy marks, and the majority of the grads get into med school or dentistry school. It's also the most direct route to Mac's med school. Need minimum 90's in HS, plus extracurricular activities.

If you can't get into an exclusive program like this, then pick something easy enough where you can get a 4.0 average. And load up on extracurriculars.

As for being a doctor, I once planned on going that route. Bottom line: don't do it for the money. Try to get as much experience working in a hospital or with patients while in high school. Volunteering at hospitals is a must. I also did a co-op term in an ICU in high school. Talk to med students and doctors about their career choice. Essentially, with the level of intelligence and work ethic required to be a doctor, you can make as much or more money much quicker in business.

[msb45]

wow... after hearing all this I almost want to drop out of med school :)

Fizzy - there will be a lot of work, but for the moment, just deal with undergrad; you're 4 years away from even applying, so pick a field that interests you, at a university/city you'll enjoy attending (if you like cities, then go to UoT or McGill, if not, then go somewhere smaller). If you're happy in school, you'll do better. In 4 years you may not even want ot go to med school any more, if you do, then worry about it at the time. As far as specializing goes, most people don't know what they're going to do untill the 3rd or 4th year of med school (thats 7-8 years from now for you), and I'm about 90% sure that you wont decide to go into plastics, because you probably don't know enough about it, and all the other feilds to make a real descision at this point.

Personally, I like McGill, and I love Montreal, but go for whatever floats your boat.

[Gloaming]

My Dad did Medicine, which is why I did Dentistry. The key thing in life is to learn from OTHER people's mistakes.

[7thEye]

Yeah to be quite honest form what I have heard from friends medicine is such a downer in terms of a career. Too many hrs, too little pay, and in general the level of respect you guys used to have is fast disapering and now most residents feel like they are treated like crap. Patients are often too demanding and dont realize how hard a doctor works, there is huge shortage, blah blah the lists go on..

I dont think most people would even consider going into medicine anymore, it just is not worth it!

[vithushy]

U of T is the best for medicine!
Macleans rates it # 1 for medical doctoral for the 11th time in a row! :-0

[0T6]

U of T is the best for medicine!
Macleans rates it # 1 for medical doctoral for the 11th time in a row! :-0

UofT is obviously a great school (or I wouldn't have gone there for undergrad :P) but you're misinterpreting the rankings. The ranks are based on medical school that have major research going on.. so obviously Toronto's going to be at the top of that list. It doesn't reflect the quality of the medical program as much as it does reflect the amount of money in research, the quality of that research, and who's doing that research. If you're into academic medicine, then UT's the place to be no question! But for clinical medical education, a smaller centre might be a better choice. I was talking to someone who just finished 1st year at UT meds and he said himself that sometimes he wishes he was at another school because there'd be more clinical opportunities and exposure, that said, he wouldn't give up the resources available at UT.

[mrclone]

UofT is obviously a great school (or I wouldn't have gone there for undergrad :P) but you're misinterpreting the rankings. The ranks are based on medical school that have major research going on.. so obviously Toronto's going to be at the top of that list. It doesn't reflect the quality of the medical program as much as it does reflect the amount of money in research, the quality of that research, and who's doing that research. If you're into academic medicine, then UT's the place to be no question! But for clinical medical education, a smaller centre might be a better choice. I was talking to someone who just finished 1st year at UT meds and he said himself that sometimes he wishes he was at another school because there'd be more clinical opportunities and exposure, that said, he wouldn't give up the resources available at UT.

Ditto. Based on the allocation of funding for UT's medical research and access to resources in Toronto, you can tell it's great for that. While the MD undergrad program may be heavily tied to research, if you can separate the two, it may be marginally different from the other schools. Also, keep in mind that now that UT's President-elect was the former Dean of Medicine, expect the money to keep flowing into the med school.

Regarding pre-med programs, just choose the school that suits you and you can excel the most in, not necessarily the most reknowned school (i'm a UT grad speaking here just so you know). Keep your grades up and diversify your interests, and you can build a much stronger case for your med school admission vs. piss poor performance and lack of depth at a top school heh.

p.s. add med gen/microbio to your list of undergrad programs that are med school killers ;)

[Necrosis]

Health Science at Mac is the best pre-med program in the country. It's the same faculty with the same profs as Mac's med school, the coursework is the most like med school, easy marks, and the majority of the grads get into med school or dentistry school. It's also the most direct route to Mac's med school. Need minimum 90's in HS, plus extracurricular activities.
I'm in this program, and I agree that the courses are extremely beneficial and the faculty is amazing. The marks are not actually that easy though - the class averages match the class average of the student group in other classes. Yes, a majority of our grads enter med school or dentistry, with many leaving after 3 years. One advantage of health sci as a program before medicine is that the courses prepare you for the field and studies you'll nopefully be doing later. Upper years who have graduated from health sci and are now in medicine have generally said that our courses in human anatomy and physiology (yes we work in the lab and yes we test with a bellringer), critical appraisal, health policy/systems, etc are really helpful (less new material to learn later). The courses are also good if you're actually interested in coures related to health and medicine.


5. Get your head out of your books and live life. Join things and be different. I mean, the # of applicants who are all cookie cutter students are so annoyingly overwhelming: "did well in high school and university, joined the science and chess club, volunteered in hospital" blah blah blah. they've seen it a million times. You want to do something different? Try this: my verbal reasoning teacher JOINED the army, became ORDAINED and goes to hospitals for 'last rites' or smtg. THAT'S different. And she got into Queens first cut.
I totally agree with this, but at the same time there are good reasons they look for the things they do. Even though everyone might have volunteered in a hospital or did research work, it tells them you've been exposed to the environment and have explored various areas in the field. I was very anti research myself, because it was too "cookie cutter" but after doing it, I realize I was too quick to judge. It was so different than what I was imagining, and I think it's probably important for medical school applicants to understand the lab side of medicine (plus you need to do research later).

UofT has the best medical program in Canada. Period.
Maybe, according to Macleans. On the other hand, if you look at the clinical approach of McMaster or what they do differently at other universities, you have to wonder if the U of T approach is necessarily the best in terms of producing good doctors. It's a great school, but I don't know if you can really say the other med schools are any worse.