Quebec to ask for more independence When it comes to foreign policy

[devious9191]

MONTREAL -- The Quebec government is demanding that Ottawa give it more room to operate on foreign policy, and officials say the federal government is preventing the province from taking a more prominent role.

"We're going to have quite the debate with Ottawa," said Benoit Pelletier, Quebec's intergovernmental affairs minister, in an interview with Canadian Press.

As of next month, Ottawa will officially learn that Quebec is demanding greater freedom on the international stage based on a "very modern" interpretation of the Gerin-Lajoie doctrine, Pelletier said.

The Gerin-Lajoie doctrine has for several years been the base of Quebec's policy abroad. It maintains Quebec is fully sovereign in areas of provincial jurisdiction.

Pelletier is preparing a document which he plans to pass on in to his federal counterparts in September. He has requested a meeting with federal ministers, but has yet to receive a response.

The document will include a list of demands aimed at raising Quebec's international profile, including a seat at important international institutions like UNESCO and the ability to sign bilateral agreements with other countries.

Pelletier insists his government's demands respect both the sprit and the letter of the laws of federalism.

"We want to negotiate an agreement that will not be constantly put into question."

Pelletier also said Prime Minister Paul Martin's government has hardened its position towards Quebec on the issue and has back-tracked on an election promise to deal with it.

He says the federal government is working from the false premise that "Quebec will start acting like an independent country" if it gives in to its demands.

Pelletier used Premier Jean Charest's recent visit to Haiti as an example. He says the department of Foreign Affairs tried to block Charest from meeting with Haiti's interim president, Gerard Latortue.

The meeting eventually took place after some negotiation, but its the type of incident the Quebec government wants to avoid in the future.

Ottawa and Quebec also butted heads recently when they were unable to come to an agreement on international adoptions from Vietnam. Quebec eventually refused to sign the agreement, charging Ottawa had stripped it of its legal significance.

© The Canadian Press 2005

http://www.canada.com/national/story.html?id=e72253c2-ee14-4404-add5-2420bdf85576

[TenzoR]

demand denied

next!

[d_jedi]

Quebec does not deserve special priviledges that other provinces do not get.

[xxx]

demand denied

next!

Same for Tibet

[Shaner]

Is anyone else sick of Quebec's whining.

I say don't let them separate, instead, kick them out of the damn country. I'm so sick of the french, whether it be Quebec or France, all they do is whine.

[TenzoR]

Same for Tibet

:confused:

[xxx]

Is anyone else sick of Quebec's whining.

I say don't let them separate, instead, kick them out of the damn country. I'm so sick of the french, whether it be Quebec or France, all they do is whine.

I like French Chicks because they are hot and sexy.

[TenzoR]

Is anyone else sick of Quebec's whining.

I say don't let them separate, instead, kick them out of the damn country. I'm so sick of the french, whether it be Quebec or France, all they do is whine.

keep your racist comment to urself

[xxx]

:confused:

Tibet wants to be independent.

[xxx]

keep your racist comment to urself

His comments are not racist at all.

[Shaner]

keep your racist comment to urself

It's not racist, it's fact.
That's like calling me a racist because I say that per capita, black people commit more crime in Canada than white people. That's not racist, it's fact.

ps. For anyone who wants to dispute my above comment, no I will not provide statistics, because I don't feel the need. If you want proof, find it yourself. I work in the Criminal Justice System, so I see these statistics almost every day.

[ill_mango]

oh geez...Quebec is really pushing it this time

[TenzoR]

His comments are not racist at all.

maybe racist was the wrong word to use, but his comment are unnecessary, labeling all french whiner

[asim99]

I'm so sick of the french, whether it be Quebec or France, all they do is whine.

it IS racist

[HeatSeeker]

keep your racist comment to urself

When you can't come up with a rational rebuttal, go for the name calling and labelling. That always works! :mad:

[mbg]

I like French Chicks because they are hot and sexy.

keep your racist comment to urself

[mbg]

it IS racist

Racist against...the French race?

Sounds more nationalist to me :) And, in fact, it's not even that...

It's a stereotype.

[asim99]

Racist against...the French race?

Sounds more nationalist to me :) And, in fact, it's not even that...

the french...the francophones

[xxx]

keep your racist comment to urself

I love to share :-)

[aquariaguy]

the french...the francophones

stop being racist

[devious9191]

If you guys want to be dumbasses about who's racist and who's not, maybe you could start a thread to cover that, rather than having this one locked.

[Shaner]

it IS racist

Are French people a completely different race? No, they are not. In fact, many French people are also Canadians. Regardless of what I say about the French, it is not racist.

It is fact that French people (especially Francophones) whine and ***** about politics more than the rest of Canada. Do all of them? No, of course not. Am I stereotyping, yes, I am. But guess what, everyone stereotypes every day of their lives.

Get over it, I doubt you're not so overly sensitive that I offended your delicate nature by referring to French people as whiners. I call it as I see it, no need to sugar coat things just to be politically correct, there's too much of that in this country.

[Shaner]

If you guys want to be dumbasses about who's racist and who's not, maybe you could start a thread to cover that, rather than having this one locked.

You're right. I'm not going to respond to any more posts about racism. If you want to bash me, do it in a PM, I will gladly respond. Lets get this post back on topic. If need be, the MOD's can delete my posts if people won't let go of what I said.

[asim99]

Are French people a completely different race? No, they are not. In fact, many French people are also Canadians. Regardless of what I say about the French, it is not racist.

It is fact that French people (especially Francophones) whine and ***** about politics more than the rest of Canada. Do all of them? No, of course not. Am I stereotyping, yes, I am. But guess what, everyone stereotypes every day of their lives.

Get over it, I doubt you're not so overly sensitive that I offended your delicate nature by referring to French people as whiners. I call it as I see it, no need to sugar coat things just to be politically correct, there's too much of that in this country.

stereotyping and racism are not mutually exclusive

[Daemar]

The Quebec government I don't believe speaks for the majority of Quebecers. (Edit: on this matter, that is. Obviously they were elected by the majority.)

Why does a province need to sign their own international agreements? I'm pretty sure that lies in the federal jurisdiction. We don't need conflicting agreements around the world. We should be represented by one party which is the federal government of Canada. They do have representatives in the federal government, so the Quebec Government should STFU.

As for having a place in international organizations? again STFU! I can't believe Quebec's ego.

I'm not saying provinces should not go internationally to promote their province. They just shouldn't be allowed to sign agreements that the rest of Canada may end up being liable for.

We might as well send in the troops and 'liberate' quebec from the 'evil-doers' that have taken over the government.

[hover42]

Is anyone else sick of Quebec's whining.

I say don't let them separate, instead, kick them out of the damn country. I'm so sick of the french, whether it be Quebec or France, all they do is whine.

How can you kick French people out of the country? They built a good part of it, so you can't really kick them out of THEIR country, right?

You'll find, if you ever come visit us in Québec and I hope you do, that francophones in Québec and across Canada have had some difficulty having their linguistic rights respected over the years. Some of these difficulties will appear subtle to the non-initiated. Things improved greatly in the 60's, but several issues remain. The Québec government is simply trying to be able to represent this French province in dealings with other countries because the federal government has often failed at doing this well.

I've crossed this beautiful country a few times (by land) and have been struck by both the intelligence of many Canadians concerning these issues, and the blatant ignorance of many Canadians also.

Oh, and by the way, it is true that French chicks are hot; that in of itself would be an excellent reason to come visit us. :)

[Headhunter]

Quebec does not deserve special priviledges that other provinces do not get.
Agreed, it's becoming quite the irritant to read about all of these loony requests.

[HeatSeeker]

When we refer to the French, are we not talking about those people who are citizens of France? If you wish to refer to those French speaking citizens of Canada, then would it not be appropriate to refer to them as Canadians? I hate this whole French Canadian-English Canadian language stuff. We are all citizens of this country and as such we should refer to ourselves as Canadians. To refer to oneself as French or English Canadian is promoting bigotry, extreme nationalism and a form of apartheid.

[HoTiCE_]

You are totally right. There will always be people around that are ignorant about these issues and claim yay high that Quebec is always whining.One needs to understand where these problems come from and the fact that Quebec is a 8 M mostly francophone population in a sea of 300 M+ anglophones. I'm not saying the Quebec government is the best government in the world, i'm just saying that you have to understand the whole context before judging.

Canada is widely known around the world for its diversity and Quebec adds a lot to that. I mean, without the french factor, Canada would look like any other american state, at least that's the impression i get when i go to Toronto. Vancouver on the other side is one truely amazing city...Alberta? couldn't find it on the map ;) True, past separatist government have given a bad image of us but i dont think we should be judged by their.

P.S: just for argument's sake, i've always been a federalist & voted liberal (yeah due to lack of options besides the parti quebecois)

[devious9191]

How can you kick French people out of the country? They built a good part of it, so you can't really kick them out of THEIR country, right?

You'll find, if you ever come visit us in Québec and I hope you do, that francophones in Québec and across Canada have had some difficulty having their linguistic rights respected over the years. Some of these difficulties will appear subtle to the non-initiated. Things improved greatly in the 60's, but several issues remain. The Québec government is simply trying to be able to represent this French province in dealings with other countries because the federal government has often failed at doing this well.

I've crossed this beautiful country a few times (by land) and have been struck by both the intelligence of many Canadians concerning these issues, and the blatant ignorance of many Canadians also.

Oh, and by the way, it is true that French chicks are hot; that in of itself would be an excellent reason to come visit us. :)

Just a quick question. Do you feel that Quebec should seperate or have more rights than the rest of the provinces?

[vonteego]

You are totally right. There will always be people around that are ignorant about these issues and claim yay high that Quebec is always whining.One needs to understand where these problems come from and the fact that Quebec is a 8 M mostly francophone population in a sea of 300 M+ anglophones. I'm not saying the Quebec government is the best government in the world, i'm just saying that you have to understand the whole context before judging.

Canada is widely known around the world for its diversity and Quebec adds a lot to that. I mean, without the french factor, Canada would look like any other american state, at least that's the impression i get when i go to Toronto. Vancouver on the other side is one truely amazing city...Alberta? couldn't find it on the map ;) True, past separatist government have given a bad image of us but i dont think we should be judged by their.

P.S: just for argument's sake, i've always been a federalist & voted liberal (yeah due to lack of options besides the parti quebecois)

You don't need to travel out West to find Alberta, it's already IN Quebec. Anytime you see a Petro-Canada or Esso station in your province, thats a piece of Alberta you're pumping into your tank.

But who needs cheap oil when you've got language police to protect your way of life from the "sea of 300M+ anglos", right? If the French of Louisiana can thrive in a "sea" of American anglos, surely Quebeckers can hide from english folk in their VAST amounts of land. :cheesygri

[NG]

Lots of hate in this thread.

For the record, although sourced from the CP, this is a Canwest Global article since they've had a history of "modifying" CP stuff before printing.

I'm not taking any of it seriously until someone posts a CBC/Globe or Star article on this.

[NG]

You don't need to travel out West to find Alberta, it's already IN Quebec. Anytime you see a Petro-Canada or Esso station in your province, thats a piece of Alberta you're pumping into your tank.


Petro Canada was stolen from all Canadians and given to Albertians to pacify those who have a hardon against the government owning businesses. Unless you mean the gas itself in which case gas comes from a varaity of sources - including overseas.

[asim99]

Petro Canada was stolen from all Canadians and given to Albertians to pacify those who have a hardon against the government owning businesses. Unless you mean the gas itself in which case gas comes from a varaity of sources - including overseas.

welcome back NG....didnt see your posts for a while

[Madcatmk2]

It is fact that French people (especially Francophones) whine and ***** about politics more than the rest of Canada. Do all of them? No, of course not. Am I stereotyping, yes, I am. But guess what, everyone stereotypes every day of their lives.

You will have to understand that your way of saying that all french people whines will provoke people even if you afterward says that its not all of them.
Just add (Not all of them) or something.



What i think is there should be a three way foreign policy. One for the commonwealth, one for the francophonie and the third for international exchange and stuff. It could be two sub-ministers(chosen by the PM) that work for all of Canada where english or french people are related. The problem with this is we will only get results on a long-term basis.

[HoTiCE_]

You don't need to travel out West to find Alberta, it's already IN Quebec. Anytime you see a Petro-Canada or Esso station in your province, thats a piece of Alberta you're pumping into your tank.

But who needs cheap oil when you've got language police to protect your way of life from the "sea of 300M+ anglos", right? If the French of Louisiana can thrive in a "sea" of American anglos, surely Quebeckers can hide from english folk in their VAST amounts of land. :cheesygri

the french of louisiana? ur kidding right? there AREN'T no French in louisiana, its a marketing gimmick kept to lure tourist to Mardi Gras and such...as oppose to french culture which is still very much present in Quebec. In this matter, Quebec IS a distinct society no matter what you all say. Yes it should be treated equally in most parts as would any other 9 provinces but because of its special status, it is normal that it sometimes asks for special requests.

as for petro canada, most of the gasoline sold in Quebec does come from oversea....its a known fact that the vast majority of Albertan production does go south of the border...


PS: totally off topic but since we're in that forum, what's the current gas price in Alberta today? Its a whoooopin 108.4 in Montreal as of this morning

[ill_mango]

PS: totally off topic but since we're in that forum, what's the current gas price in Alberta today? Its a whoooopin 108.4 in Montreal as of this morning


Wow...it was 93.5 in toronto last night

[vonteego]

the french of louisiana? ur kidding right? there AREN'T no French in louisiana, its a marketing gimmick kept to lure tourist to Mardi Gras and such...as oppose to french culture which is still very much present in Quebec. In this matter, Quebec IS a distinct society no matter what you all say. Yes it should be treated equally in most parts as would any other 9 provinces but because of its special status, it is normal that it sometimes asks for special requests.

as for petro canada, most of the gasoline sold in Quebec does come from oversea....its a known fact that the vast majority of Albertan production does go south of the border...


PS: totally off topic but since we're in that forum, what's the current gas price in Alberta today? Its a whoooopin 108.4 in Montreal as of this morning


There's over one million ppl of French descent in Lousiana.

Ok how about this, you can be as "distinct" as you want in Quebec, as long as you don't do it on someone else's (i.e. Alberta, Ontario) $$$$$ ?

[hover42]

Just a quick question. Do you feel that Quebec should seperate or have more rights than the rest of the provinces?

I think you're intelligent enough to realize that your quick question cannot be answered with a quick answer. The problem about constitutional rights is much more complex than that; in such matters, things aren't always black or whire, they are sometimes gray.

[HoTiCE_]

There's over one million ppl of French descent in Lousiana.

Ok how about this, you can be as "distinct" as you want in Quebec, as long as you don't do it on someone else's (i.e. Alberta, Ontario) $$$$$ ?

Yes descent, but there aren't any more French left..everyone speaks english now..except maybe for the older generations...besides, u can't say they're french its like saying there's 300 M british in north america...

and concerning ur second comment, we're not doing it ON someone else..we are just asking for special recognition in certains aspects of government related to our distinct status... though i agree some are just plain old ridiculous, but i must stress again, typical to a separatist government as opposed to the one we currently have...

besides, its not as simple as this and we could debate for hours, end of the day, i'm damn proud to be a canadian as opposed to being an American...thats it for now

i gotta go see my vancouver-native gf, pump Alberta's Petro Canada Gas, drive my made-in-Ontario car and eat some goddamn Poutine while impatiently waiting for the hockey season to start.


peace.

[devious9191]

I think you're intelligent enough to realize that your quick question cannot be answered with a quick answer. The problem about constitutional rights is much more complex than that; in such matters, things aren't always black or whire, they are sometimes gray.

It seems very black and white to me. French is recognized as being one of the 'founding' cultures of this country, and outside of Quebec it is certainly regarded as such. With official bilingualism, government services are provided in both languages, road signs are in both languages, etc.

Now why exactly does Quebec need it own pention plan and a different healthcare system than the rest of the country? Why does tax money get funnelled into Quebec to support french projects that aren't self sufficient?

I think these are the problems that the rest of Canada has with Quebec. Noone has a problem with it being primarily french speaking people.. but how exactly do these types of things that Quebec's government asks for, and gets for the sake of national unity help protect Quebec's culture, rather than alienate it from everyone else?

To me personally it does seem very black and white. Government offices in places like Alberta with a very low percentage of french speaking people are forced to hire bilingual staff to serve the french minority. And that's fine... but the people of Quebec should make a decision.. to either be treated like every other province in this country, or to leave the country. The rest of this country has been bending over backwards for Quebec for 20 years.

[Paksis]

Petro Canada was stolen from all Canadians and given to Albertians to pacify those who have a hardon against the government owning businesses. Unless you mean the gas itself in which case gas comes from a varaity of sources - including overseas.


Petro Canada's shares were sold on the TSE stock market for a profit by the Federal government. Not given to Alberta. Overall though the Canadian Taxpayer was the net loser paying too much in the beginning and buying with borrowed money(anyone know what interest rates were in the early 80"s).


"For the record, although sourced from the CP, this is a Canwest Global article since they've had a history of "modifying" CP stuff before printing."

Hmm anything to back that statement up or is it just HYPERBOLE.



"I'm not taking any of it seriously until someone posts a CBC/Globe or Star article on this" written by Ng

And the Canadian Broadcorping Castration doesn't modify anything??? :cheesygri :cheesygri


Cheese+Whine = French


__________________________________________________ _________

Bloc Quebecois n. Regional political party composed of two groups: those pining for the good old days of Mulroney and those pining for the good old days of Duplessis. See bus.

[NG]

welcome back NG....didnt see your posts for a while

Hey man. Thanks for the welcome back. Dispite the fact it was a 3 day ban I actually "issued" myself a 2 week one because I thought it warrented it. Though I was provoked on repeated occasions that's no excuse.

[Ilikethisdeal]

I woud say if they want to separate, just let them go, but pls leave the land because it belongs to Canada.

[ronin893]

Oh, and by the way, it is true that French chicks are hot; that in of itself would be an excellent reason to come visit us. :)
hot French chicks -- bump :D

[Samir]

Now why exactly does Quebec need it own pention plan and a different healthcare system than the rest of the country?

Allocation of resources. Francophones, being culturally different, have different priorities than Anglophones. By giving Quebec more power to manage its money, Quebec can allocate the funds how it wants to emphasize its priorities rather than what Ottawa wants. In the case of the QPP, it invests heavily in Quebec-based business that might be overlooked by the CPP.

The issue is to find a happy medium between Ottawa and Quebec City. You have to remember the original deal they agreed to back in 1867 was for a decentralized country with Provinces managing pretty much everything except for Int'l affairs, National Defence and Transfer payments. 138 years later, Ottawa has its hand in everything from Health to Municipal politics. If you think only the French are irate about it, ask an Albertan if he thinks Ottawa is holding Alberta back or not.

As for language protection, the examples of Vermont and Louisiana are all the Francophones here need to see that French must be protected or else vanish. If you were the last anglophone in French North America (say roles were reversed) wouldn't you be trying to preserve your language too? It's certainly not a unique measure, New Brunswick's official bilingualism protects its French heritage as well.

Anyway, the more I talk to other Canadians, the more disconcerted I feel. I will readily admit that the average Quebeccer is ill-informed about the rest of Canada and they need to get off the persecution/they-conquered-us compex. Then I see stuff like the Reform Party's "No more PMs from Quebec" or Harper saying democratically-elected Bloc MPs in Ottawa are not legitimate and I have to shake my head at how non-Quebeccers are just as bad.

PS: And I know you're going to ask - I vote Liberal in all elections and I am a federalist... or should I say a confederalist.

[Sgt_Strider]

You are totally right. There will always be people around that are ignorant about these issues and claim yay high that Quebec is always whining.One needs to understand where these problems come from and the fact that Quebec is a 8 M mostly francophone population in a sea of 300 M+ anglophones. I'm not saying the Quebec government is the best government in the world, i'm just saying that you have to understand the whole context before judging.

Canada is widely known around the world for its diversity and Quebec adds a lot to that. I mean, without the french factor, Canada would look like any other american state, at least that's the impression i get when i go to Toronto. Vancouver on the other side is one truely amazing city...Alberta? couldn't find it on the map ;) True, past separatist government have given a bad image of us but i dont think we should be judged by their.

P.S: just for argument's sake, i've always been a federalist & voted liberal (yeah due to lack of options besides the parti quebecois)

Canada's population is 32 million not 300 million.

[bug]

Well you have to take a look at the Bloc from a different perspective. They're a federal party, but only run in one province. How many other federal parties can make that claim :?: I can understand why Harper hates them. I don't recognize the bloc as a legitimate party either. I'm a staunch federalist, and have always voted Liberal. I'm a Canadian first and a Quebecer second.

[Sgt_Strider]

Okay if this story is true, then Quebec is going too far. By giving them that freedom, that's like giving the Quebec government some sort of recognition of its indepdence and sovereignty. Isn't the point of having a federal government of representing every region of Canada? I continue to support a hardline policy in dealing with separatists. If they want to separate, partition every inch of Quebec that wants to stay with Canada :cheesygri.

Just in case some of you disagree with me, we do have a law that states that the federal government does have the right to partition Quebec so that the parts of Quebec that want to stay with Canada, can stay.

[HoTiCE_]

Canada's population is 32 million not 300 million.


what do you make of the 300+ M south of the border? last i heard they were still using english

[Blazin_Sunfire]

Well you have to take a look at the Bloc from a different perspective. They're a federal party, but only run in one province. How many other federal parties can make that claim :?: I can understand why Harper hates them. I don't recognize the bloc as a legitimate party either. I'm a staunch federalist, and have always voted Liberal. I'm a Canadian first and a Quebecer second.

When one says anything about the french, they do not mean you oh wise and rational frenchman! Canada > quebec on the importancy list.

[Blazin_Sunfire]

Just in case some of you disagree with me, we do have a law that states that the federal government does have the right to partition Quebec so that the parts of Quebec that want to stay with Canada, can stay.

If what you say is true... I LOVE THIS LAW!

[hover42]

Just in case some of you disagree with me, we do have a law that states that the federal government does have the right to partition Quebec so that the parts of Quebec that want to stay with Canada, can stay.

We also have a law ("The Clarity Act") that has the gall to redefine words; it says a majority must be "clear". Geez, majority means 50% +1 in all books I've seen.

So, the federal government lost quite a bit of credibility in Quebec when it passed several laws under the Cretin government. That also means those laws lack credibility, at least in Quebec.

[ronin893]

We also have a law ("The Clarity Act") that has the gall to redefine words; it says a majority must be "clear". Geez, majority means 50% +1 in all books I've seen.

So, the federal government lost quite a bit of credibility in Quebec when it passed several laws under the Cretin government. That also means those laws lack credibility, at least in Quebec.Ever heard of a two-thirds majority (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-thirds_majority) or a supermajority (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supermajority)? Examples are papal elections, the European Union Council, and US Constitutional amendments. A province separating requires a constitutional amendment, therefore, it is reasonable to expect a clear majority.

[Asun]

what do you make of the 300+ M south of the border? last i heard they were still using english

Are you sure? I think it's more like Ebonics and Spanish.

[NG]

Petro Canada's shares were sold on the TSE stock market for a profit by the Federal government. Not given to Alberta. Overall though the Canadian Taxpayer was the net loser paying too much in the beginning and buying with borrowed money(anyone know what interest rates were in the early 80"s).

Alberta has always been ticked b/c of Trudeau's Ntl energy policy which Petro Canada was part of. He sold them off to pacify Alberta. And the Albertan oil industry reeped the rewards of the sale.


"For the record, although sourced from the CP, this is a Canwest Global article since they've had a history of "modifying" CP stuff before printing."

Hmm anything to back that statement up or is it just HYPERBOLE.

Check CP articles from the Globe/Star compared to Canwest papers. In Canwest's they're much more slanted. Nice job yelling btw. Doesn't make you sound that serious.



"I'm not taking any of it seriously until someone posts a CBC/Globe or Star article on this" written by Ng

And the Canadian Broadcorping Castration doesn't modify anything??? :cheesygri :cheesygri

If all you have is name calling I won't take what you have to say seriously ;)

Cheese+Whine = French

And how is that not bigotted torwards the French?

[fakishan]

I say don't let them separate, instead, kick them out of the damn country. I'm so sick of the french, whether it be Quebec or France, all they do is whine.


I wouldn't want to see you become a parent, and if you are; god help your children (or social services help them..)

I don't see Quebec whining over anything, we dictate and get it, you keep whining why we get more, cause we're better than you.

[NG]

you keep whining why we get more, cause we're better than you.

LMAO! Classic! I love it!

[Ferman]

I wouldn't want to see you become a parent, and if you are; god help your children (or social services help them..)

I don't see Quebec whining over anything, we dictate and get it, you keep whining why we get more, cause we're better than you.

Lets see how better you are without all the federal government handouts.

Also, I hope you enjoy paying your $400+ for auto license registration.. must be to pay for the language police.

In my province it costs less than $70.

[Super strokey]

I wouldn't want to see you become a parent, and if you are; god help your children (or social services help them..)

I don't see Quebec whining over anything, we dictate and get it, you keep whining why we get more, cause we're better than you.

Better? I will consider you equal once you learn how to balance a budget.

[Samir]

Lets see how better you are without all the federal government handouts.

Also, I hope you enjoy paying your $400+ for auto license registration.. must be to pay for the language police.

In my province it costs less than $70.

Actually a lot of it covers no-fault car insurance. It helps reduce the cost of insurance in Quebec.

Language police are funded through income taxes.

I don't see Quebec whining over anything...cause we're better than you.

Tu n'aides pas la situation avec des commentaires de ce genre. Dans les sujets ou le monde s'attaquent au Québec tu as l'occasion parfaite de leur montrer qu'ils ont tort avec des répliques intélligentes. Mais non, c'est plus divertissant d'agir comme un troll.

[Ferman]

Language police are funded through income taxes.


Money well spent I suppose you'll say.

Enjoy your high taxes, and PST.

[pd0x]

I think provinces asking for foreign policy influence is ridiculous...

I respect the Quebecor's need for cultural and policies within their own province as it pertains to their history but please? independent foreign policy?

I think some one needs to send them a memo to let them know, that you are Canadian First, Quebecor Second. It is the same country-wide.

[Sgt_Strider]

it IS racist

AFAIK it's not racist. Naturally French people are caucasian. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that is what I last heard. Hating anyone that is French isn't racist. French itself is a nationality and or language. It has nothing to do with their skin colour.

[Sgt_Strider]

what do you make of the 300+ M south of the border? last i heard they were still using english

British North America is usually referred to as Canada. I don't know what was the point of your post, but you're wrong. The American population does not factor in with the Canadian population. I think you should choose your words precisely if you want to act smart :rolleyes:.

[Sgt_Strider]

If what you say is true... I LOVE THIS LAW!

It's true and yes, hover42 is right. It's called the Clarity Act.

[Sgt_Strider]

We also have a law ("The Clarity Act") that has the gall to redefine words; it says a majority must be "clear". Geez, majority means 50% +1 in all books I've seen.

So, the federal government lost quite a bit of credibility in Quebec when it passed several laws under the Cretin government. That also means those laws lack credibility, at least in Quebec.

For something this important, 50%+1 is simply not enough. Why should we let such a razor thin majority determine the fate of the rest of the others?

I don't think the law lacts credibility in Quebec. Quebec must respect it regardless even though they never sign the Constitution Act of 1982. Yet, they behave accordingly.

[Sgt_Strider]

Better? I will consider you equal once you learn how to balance a budget.

ROFL :cheesygri

[webdoctors]

are french chicks really hot? I been to Montreal and i disagree, its the same as Toronto. Quebec City however, I felt yes the quality of the meet was of higher grade, nevertheless, I feel it would be unfair to classify Quebecers as being hotter than Ontarions, considering most Quebec strippers are imported.

[hover42]

For something this important, 50%+1 is simply not enough. Why should we let such a razor thin majority determine the fate of the rest of the others?

I don't think the law lacts credibility in Quebec. Quebec must respect it regardless even though they never sign the Constitution Act of 1982. Yet, they behave accordingly.

The point is not whether 50% + 1 is enough. The point is whether a law, which by definition should use the correct words and not re-invent words, is not credible when the legislator decides to use words which are far from "clear", i.e. saying a "clear majority" is like saying "pale white". Both expressions are idiotic and go against the meaning of the words. Such insane language should not be found in laws, because these are used by courts to set precedents and judges need clear expressions. So, the so-called "clarity law" is absolutely terrible and confusing, far from "clear".

And all this we owe to the puppet Cretin had, Stéphane Dion. So, ask around and you'll find that law (and its instigator) are despised by a majority of citizens in Québec.

[HoTiCE_]

British North America is usually referred to as Canada. I don't know what was the point of your post, but you're wrong. The American population does not factor in with the Canadian population. I think you should choose your words precisely if you want to act smart :rolleyes:.


If you read carefully i was referring to the fact that 8 M Francophones in Quebec are surrounded by a sea of 300 M *anglophones* hence our need to preserve the french culture thats left.

ANGLOPHONES = english speaking person

still confused?

[Txiasaeia]

I think the question isn't why Quebec should have more independence in foreign policy, but why the Canadian government blocked Quebec from meeting with the Haiti interim president. Everybody in Canada knows that Quebec considers itself to be a distinct society within the confederation, whether they like it or not. I don't think that the province should have so much latitude that they can declare war on another country, for example, or set up an embargo prohibiting a country's imports into a Canada, but why shouldn't they be allowed to meet with other heads of state? It seems reasonable to me.

[Sgt_Strider]

The point is not whether 50% + 1 is enough. The point is whether a law, which by definition should use the correct words and not re-invent words, is not credible when the legislator decides to use words which are far from "clear", i.e. saying a "clear majority" is like saying "pale white". Both expressions are idiotic and go against the meaning of the words. Such insane language should not be found in laws, because these are used by courts to set precedents and judges need clear expressions. So, the so-called "clarity law" is absolutely terrible and confusing, far from "clear".

And all this we owe to the puppet Cretin had, Stéphane Dion. So, ask around and you'll find that law (and its instigator) are despised by a majority of citizens in Québec.

Buddy, I have one word for you, interpretation. Different people interpret things differently. For one, I can interpret clear majority as 80%+1.

[Sgt_Strider]

If you read carefully i was referring to the fact that 8 M Francophones in Quebec are surrounded by a sea of 300 M *anglophones* hence our need to preserve the french culture thats left.

ANGLOPHONES = english speaking person

still confused?

I don't need you to tell me what anglophones mean because I know what it means :rolleyes:. You should be specific in your posts because you weren't very coherent. People can't truly read what is behind your thick head :rolleyes:.

[fakishan]

Tu n'aides pas la situation avec des commentaires de ce genre. Dans les sujets ou le monde s'attaquent au Québec tu as l'occasion parfaite de leur montrer qu'ils ont tort avec des répliques intélligentes. Mais non, c'est plus divertissant d'agir comme un troll.

désolé... mais s'il y a une chose donc j'en suis certain, c'est que le monde sur RFD sont pas raisonable.

[hover42]

Buddy, I have one word for you, interpretation. Different people interpret things differently. For one, I can interpret clear majority as 80%+1.

You don't seem to understand that words often have well defined meanings. The expression "a lot" for example can mean various quantities to various individuals. The expression "heavy" also means different things to differeent folks. Laws cannot be written with such expressions; they must be written with precise words, otherwise their application is a joke.

Your statement above demonstrates that the expression "clear majority" should not be used in a law because different people will intrepret it differently, and that is cause for friction and possibly social unrest if we ever get there. The point here that you don't seem to understand is that words have precise meanings, and laws must respect those meanings and be written in such a way that there will be as little interpretation as possible.

[guest10586]

I wouldn't want to see you become a parent, and if you are; god help your children (or social services help them..)

I don't see Quebec whining over anything, we dictate and get it, you keep whining why we get more, cause we're better than you.

Dictate...hahaha. Dictate how you are going to seperate again? What I really found funny during that Quebec referendum on seperation was the fact that while french people wanted to seperate from Canada, Aboriginal in Quebec wanted to sperate if Quebec seperated but the Quebec politicians said no.

http://www.parl.gc.ca/information/library/PRBpubs/bp412-e.htm

What a bunch of hypocrites! Though don't get me wrong, I support Quebec seperation based on the fact that my transfer payments won't be wasted on people who complain and whine all the time.

[hover42]

What a bunch of hypocrites! Though don't get me wrong, I support Quebec seperation based on the fact that my transfer payments won't be wasted on people who complain and whine all the time.

Individuals who strongly defend views like yours should have good knowledge of their topic. In this case, that would mean that you should not obtain your knowledge from only the media (as you know, the media in Canada are concentrated in the hands of only a handful of individuals who are extremely wealthy and for which the status quo is very important for their continued wealth). So, I ask you: have you ever been to Québec and spoken to individuals for more than 5 minutes? How much time have you spent in Québec actually talking to its citizens? If you haven't been here, then your knowledge is extremely limited and I urge you to not venture into discussions on such a topic for you have little knowledge and no credibility.

(Oh, by the way, I'm an anglophone.)

[gordholio]

The story never ends. Just kick them out!

[Samir]

désolé... mais s'il y a une chose donc j'en suis certain, c'est que le monde sur RFD sont pas raisonable.

Ils sont aussi raisonnable que Jean-Guy qui se renferme dans sa barraque au Saguenay et qui déteste les anglais sans jamais en avoir rencontré.

Maintenant, imagine si Jean-Guy prend le temps de faire un voyage en Ontario, et qu'il est acceuilli chaleureusement pas les Ontariens. Ses perceptions vont changer.

Il y a du travail à faire sur les deux bords. C'est meiux d'eduquer le monde à place de chialer sur un forum. Si tu n'aimes pas le monde de RFD, va voir Jean-Guy et apprend-lui ce que c'est le Canada.

[Samir]

Dictate...hahaha. Dictate how you are going to seperate again? What I really found funny during that Quebec referendum on seperation was the fact that while french people wanted to seperate from Canada, Aboriginal in Quebec wanted to sperate if Quebec seperated but the Quebec politicians said no.

http://www.parl.gc.ca/information/library/PRBpubs/bp412-e.htm

What a bunch of hypocrites! Though don't get me wrong, I support Quebec seperation based on the fact that my transfer payments won't be wasted on people who complain and whine all the time.

Nobody is saying that the last referendum wasn't a complete fiasco. Vote fixing on both sides, the PQ taking opposing positions on dividing Canada and dividing Quebec, the federal liberals asleep at the wheel until Brian Tobin woke up Johnny Boy and told him to get his ass in gear... it was pretty bad on all accounts.

The discussion is about Quebec's role in Canada. Personally I feel Canada benefits from Quebec and and Quebec benefits from Canada. Without Quebec, we'd still be oppressing the rights of gays in this country, we wouldn't have a Council of the Federation to try to get Ottawa to distribute those insane surpluses, we wouldn't have any counter weight to Western Conservatism (which is a philosophy that generally only applies when you have a lot money to throw around; like Alberta... we all know how bad the Mike Harris experiment in Ontario went) and it would drastically reduce the diversity of this country. I love the fact that Canada is officially bilingual, it is a country that is based on accepting a you for who you are and letting you live. Canada tries to give the little guy a shot to succeed, and tries to take care of the old man who spent a life time paying taxes.

If only the anti-French bigots understood this, if only the separatists who live in a bubble understood this...

[Sgt_Strider]

You don't seem to understand that words often have well defined meanings. The expression "a lot" for example can mean various quantities to various individuals. The expression "heavy" also means different things to differeent folks. Laws cannot be written with such expressions; they must be written with precise words, otherwise their application is a joke.

Your statement above demonstrates that the expression "clear majority" should not be used in a law because different people will intrepret it differently, and that is cause for friction and possibly social unrest if we ever get there. The point here that you don't seem to understand is that words have precise meanings, and laws must respect those meanings and be written in such a way that there will be as little interpretation as possible.

I understand that and laws do have precise definitions so that it cannot be broadly interpreted. I'm telling you that words in the English language can be interpreted differently depending on the person. Regarding the Clarity Act, they explicitly stated that for Quebec to secede, it's going to need more than 50%+1 regardless of what you and Quebecers say. I honestly doubt most of Quebec disagree with this notion since there is no poll nor any statistical evidence indicating that is the case.

[Sgt_Strider]

Nobody is saying that the last referendum wasn't a complete fiasco. Vote fixing on both sides, the PQ taking opposing positions on dividing Canada and dividing Quebec, the federal liberals asleep at the wheel until Brian Tobin woke up Johnny Boy and told him to get his ass in gear... it was pretty bad on all accounts.

The discussion is about Quebec's role in Canada. Personally I feel Canada benefits from Quebec and and Quebec benefits from Canada. Without Quebec, we'd still be oppressing the rights of gays in this country, we wouldn't have a Council of the Federation to try to get Ottawa to distribute those insane surpluses, we wouldn't have any counter weight to Western Conservatism (which is a philosophy that generally only applies when you have a lot money to throw around; like Alberta... we all know how bad the Mike Harris experiment in Ontario went) and it would drastically reduce the diversity of this country. I love the fact that Canada is officially bilingual, it is a country that is based on accepting a you for who you are and letting you live. Canada tries to give the little guy a shot to succeed, and tries to take care of the old man who spent a life time paying taxes.

If only the anti-French bigots understood this, if only the separatists who live in a bubble understood this...

Quebec is being fairly treated in this country. In fact, I think they are better treated than most provinces. For them to demand sovereignty in foreign policy is absurd and can possibly destabilize this country.

[hover42]

The story never ends. Just kick them out!

Noodles for brains.

[gordholio]

It's just that people in English Canada are getting really tired of all this separation talk. If Quebec really wants to leave, just do it and get it over with - and we can both move on.

[gordholio]

You will have to understand that your way of saying that all french people whines will provoke people even if you afterward says that its not all of them.
Just add (Not all of them) or something.



What i think is there should be a three way foreign policy. One for the commonwealth, one for the francophonie and the third for international exchange and stuff. It could be two sub-ministers(chosen by the PM) that work for all of Canada where english or french people are related. The problem with this is we will only get results on a long-term basis.
No, none of that confusion. We need ONE foreign policy for the country.

[manixc]

If Quebec is given more independence, then other provinces will want more independence. Before you know it, Canada will be broken into several countries.

[Headhunter]

The discussion is about Quebec's role in Canada. Personally I feel Canada benefits from Quebec and and Quebec benefits from Canada. Without Quebec, we'd still be oppressing the rights of gays in this country, we wouldn't have a Council of the Federation to try to get Ottawa to distribute those insane surpluses, we wouldn't have any counter weight to Western Conservatism (which is a philosophy that generally only applies when you have a lot money to throw around; like Alberta... we all know how bad the Mike Harris experiment in Ontario went) and it would drastically reduce the diversity of this country.
Assuming I accept what you're saying at face value (though I have issues with some of it), is that really enough to justify Quebec essentially getting the power to operate independently of the country on foreign policy?

I love the fact that Canada is officially bilingual, it is a country that is based on accepting a you for who you are and letting you live. Canada tries to give the little guy a shot to succeed, and tries to take care of the old man who spent a life time paying taxes.
Accepting me for who I am and letting me live? The forced French lessons in school (which I reviled with a passion normally reserved for...well, I'll keep it to myself) didn't exactly "let me live".

I don't see how your last sentence relates to the country being bilingual.

[guest10586]

Individuals who strongly defend views like yours should have good knowledge of their topic. In this case, that would mean that you should not obtain your knowledge from only the media (as you know, the media in Canada are concentrated in the hands of only a handful of individuals who are extremely wealthy and for which the status quo is very important for their continued wealth). So, I ask you: have you ever been to Québec and spoken to individuals for more than 5 minutes? How much time have you spent in Québec actually talking to its citizens? If you haven't been here, then your knowledge is extremely limited and I urge you to not venture into discussions on such a topic for you have little knowledge and no credibility.

(Oh, by the way, I'm an anglophone.)

True, I am limited by the media. At the same time any reasoning that Quebec had for seperation would be outlined in the media as well. Right now, I still don't know what they complain about...being a minority in Canada? What? Enlighten me on this big reason for seperation. I still support it either way though as long as people who want to stay part of Canada stay that way.

[guest10586]

Nobody is saying that the last referendum wasn't a complete fiasco. Vote fixing on both sides, the PQ taking opposing positions on dividing Canada and dividing Quebec, the federal liberals asleep at the wheel until Brian Tobin woke up Johnny Boy and told him to get his ass in gear... it was pretty bad on all accounts.

The discussion is about Quebec's role in Canada. Personally I feel Canada benefits from Quebec and and Quebec benefits from Canada. Without Quebec, we'd still be oppressing the rights of gays in this country, we wouldn't have a Council of the Federation to try to get Ottawa to distribute those insane surpluses, we wouldn't have any counter weight to Western Conservatism (which is a philosophy that generally only applies when you have a lot money to throw around; like Alberta... we all know how bad the Mike Harris experiment in Ontario went) and it would drastically reduce the diversity of this country. I love the fact that Canada is officially bilingual, it is a country that is based on accepting a you for who you are and letting you live. Canada tries to give the little guy a shot to succeed, and tries to take care of the old man who spent a life time paying taxes.

If only the anti-French bigots understood this, if only the separatists who live in a bubble understood this...

Well, they don't. We can be like India and Pakistan for all I care, seperated on different beliefs. Fact is the the PM is usually from Quebec, 50% or so don't want to be part of Canada and they are always complaining that they get shafted by Canada (without any reasoning).

I'm sure I am not the only one who thinks, to hell with them...they can seperate and we can all be a bit happier. Look at the FLQ crisis and tell me the rest of Canada needs that kind of extreamist behavior. I really dislike people blinded by belief without reason. :mad:

[purple_rabbit]

You know what I'm really tired of? The F*ckin British People and all their f*ckin ancestors. I'm tired of advertisers using scottish accents because that's just stupid. Let's also f*ckin get the Queen out of our coins and money. Canada was discovered by the French and we owe our allegiance to France and not to the Brits.

[guest10586]

You know what I'm really tired of? The F*ckin British People and all their f*ckin ancestors. Let's f*ckin get the Queen out of our coins and money. Canada was discovered by the French and we owe our allegiance to France and not to the Brits.

I don't think we owe our allegiance to anyone anymore. How would putting the French on our money change things? :lol:

Write to your Prime Minister...TOPIC: WE NEED FRENCH MONEY ASAP. :lol:

[purple_rabbit]

I don't think we owe our allegiance to anyone anymore. How would putting the French on our money change things? :lol:

Write to your Prime Minister...TOPIC: WE NEED FRENCH MONEY ASAP. :lol:

lol you're right we don't owe our allegiance to anyone, we should have a CANADIAN on our coins! Speaking of French money, I don't thnk there is any in circulation anymore lol

[guest10586]

lol you're right we don't owe our allegiance to anyone, we should have a CANADIAN on our coins! Speaking of French money, I don't thnk there is any in circulation anymore lol

I would think that we have enough well known Canadians to have our own money anyways. Less politicians though, they suck. :P

[dvdvideo]

I'm tired of this garbage as well. Either be a province with the same rights/powers as every other province or break off from the country.

From a financial standpoint, Quebec consistantly takes more out of the federal funds than it puts in, and we waste billions on billingualism in canada every year on top of that.
One language, less taxes, and no more having to waste time on seperatism issues.

[dvdvideo]

Interesting read.

The Cost of Official Bilingualism


C.E. Dowswelll of Wetaskiwin Alberta, writes: "Would you please do a cost study of what bilingualism . [has] cost taxpayers to date?"

by Bruce Winchester

There are few government policies that can spark as much debate as official bilingualism. A so-called "gift to Canadians" from the late Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau - bilingualism is the gift that keeps on giving.

Beyond the direct costs to taxpayers, bilingualism also adds to the cost of doing business - almost every product sold in Canada must have labels in both English and French. Without a doubt, providing bilingual services is expensive. Sure it’s nice to be able to speak more than one language, but is such a service necessary in every corner of the country?



Calculating the actual cost of bilingualism is a tall order. One of the most comprehensive approaches to this question can be found in Lanark-Carleton MP Scott Reid's book Lament for a Notion.



Reid's analysis, as is ours here, looks just at the bill for federal taxpayers. However, it's worth noting that provincial and even local taxpayers also pay for bilingual services.



The following table adapts material presented in Scott Reid's book (page 247). Using public documents and Access to Information data, Reid has generated a comprehensive estimate of federal spending on bilingualism. Reid's calculations cover the fiscal years 1971 to 1991. In an effort to

update these figures, spending on bilingualism as a percentage of total federal spending was used to estimate equivalent figures for the last two fiscal years.



Rising Costs of Official Bilingualism



Select years -- Source: Adapted from Lament for a Notion (1993) by Scott Reid



Year Bilingualism Cost

1971-1972 375.7 million

1974-1975 472.5 million

1979-1980 981.1 million

1984-1985 1.27 billion

1989-1990 1.44 billion

1990-1991 1.67 billion

1991-1992 1.74 billion

1999-2000 1.70 billion

2000-2001 1.79 billion



The bottom line is that since bilingualism began federal taxpayers have doled out approximately $37 billion.



What the Government Claims



Not surprisingly, the federal government provides different numbers – less than a quarter of what Reid found coming in at just under a half billion dollars in 2001.



What the Federal Government Claims



2000 2001

Staff Development 10.1 million 11.3 million

Translation Bureau 140.1 million 152.1 million

Canadian Heritage 282.4 million 274.6 million

Privy Council 11.5 million 12.6 million

Total $444.1 million $450.5 million



Source: Public Accounts Volume II Part 1, 2000-2001



Using federal government figures it is only possible to account for $450 million of spending on bilingualism. Staff training and translation costs account for $163 million while the remainder is identified as funds transferred in support of minority language promotion. This is a far cry from the comprehensive analysis that Reid produced which includes:



The costs of educating federal public servants;

The costs of bilingual services provided to the public;

The costs of providing bilingual media services to the public;

The costs of regulating the private sector's use of official languages;

The costs of bilingual education programs; and

The costs of supporting official languages advocacy groups.


The federal government has a vested interest in showing the lowest possible costs in support of bilingualism. In Ottawa, the debate over bilingualism ended 30 years ago - Payez vos impots et parlez anglais! Or "Pay your taxes and speak French!"

Of note, I am not against billingualism in Quebec, but to force it on the rest of the country to where less than 10% of the population even speaks french, and where most of that 10% speaks english well, it's an absurd waste of money year after year.

[thrifty1]

demand denied

next!

here here

[ronin893]

Anybody whose attitude is "to hell with Quebec" are no better than the separatists. Both of these types of people should be tried for treason and punished accordingly.

I'm a hardcore federalist and I would never entertain the thought of Quebec leaving. Quebec is an essential part of Canada.

[NG]

AFAIK it's not racist. Naturally French people are caucasian. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that is what I last heard. Hating anyone that is French isn't racist. French itself is a nationality and or language. It has nothing to do with their skin colour.

It's still discrimation. Disliking someone for something they did not choose (being raised speaking French). If you dislike the policies, laws, etc of Quebec that's one thing and not hatred however when someone lumps an entire group of people together and says "I hate the French" that's discrimation.

I'm sure Mariel Du Mont (sp) of the ADQ wouldn't be pleased to hear that from a fellow conservative from Anglophone Canada.

[dvdvideo]

Both of these types of people should be tried for treason and punished accordingly.

Then go for it right now, since seperatist MP's in the one hand swear allegiance and duty to canada when being sworn in and then go off to plot to seperate. Brutal.

[guest10586]

Anybody whose attitude is "to hell with Quebec" are no better than the separatists. Both of these types of people should be tried for treason and punished accordingly.

I'm a hardcore federalist and I would never entertain the thought of Quebec leaving. Quebec is an essential part of Canada.

I didn't claim to be better then anyone, though some people like to think they are. To me there is no difference if you are white or black, the rich or poor, British or French...they are all people in the end. Do you think you are better then separatists? Maybe it is because of people like you that they want to seperate. :mad:

I'm saying to hell with their attitude about "seperation" and Canada. Treason, ha! Hahaha...a federalist, let me change into my "I care" T shirt. They are essential, though you omit how they are essential. I mean, without them who else would bash Canada?

[Sgt_Strider]

You know what I'm really tired of? The F*ckin British People and all their f*ckin ancestors. I'm tired of advertisers using scottish accents because that's just stupid. Let's also f*ckin get the Queen out of our coins and money. Canada was discovered by the French and we owe our allegiance to France and not to the Brits.

Well they lost the war to the Brits and so they gave up Canada.

[Sgt_Strider]

Interesting read.



Of note, I am not against billingualism in Quebec, but to force it on the rest of the country to where less than 10% of the population even speaks french, and where most of that 10% speaks english well, it's an absurd waste of money year after year.

It promotes unity and I don't think the education system is doing a good job of promoting it at a young age. I wasn't expose to French until I was in grade five.

[Sgt_Strider]

It's still discrimation. Disliking someone for something they did not choose (being raised speaking French). If you dislike the policies, laws, etc of Quebec that's one thing and not hatred however when someone lumps an entire group of people together and says "I hate the French" that's discrimation.

I'm sure Mariel Du Mont (sp) of the ADQ wouldn't be pleased to hear that from a fellow conservative from Anglophone Canada.

Read carefully, I never said it's not discrimination. I just said it's not racist.

[purple_rabbit]

Anybody whose attitude is "to hell with Quebec" are no better than the separatists. Both of these types of people should be tried for treason and punished accordingly.

I'm a hardcore federalist and I would never entertain the thought of Quebec leaving. Quebec is an essential part of Canada.

I totally agree, Quebec and Canada need each other...ah crap I'm drunk...can't remember the rest of my argument.....hey did you guys notice the price of Vodka dropped at LCBO? Damn i got a Smirnoff for $21, thats friggin cheap..it should be in the hot deals section mwuahaha. I remember the same bottle was like $26 a couple of months ago...argh, what am i doing, encourging underage drunking when all you idiots are underage :lol:

[Sgt_Strider]

I totally agree, Quebec and Canada need each other...ah crap I'm drunk...can't remember the rest of my argument.....hey did you guys notice the price of Vodka dropped at LCBO? Damn i got a Smirnoff for $21, thats friggin cheap..it should be in the hot deals section mwuahaha. I remember the same bottle was like $26 a couple of months ago...argh, what am i doing, encourging underage drunking when all you idiots are underage :lol:

Quebec would be screwed if we decide to place economic sanctions on them. Quebec needs Canada more than Canada need Quebec. One may argue why are the federalists making such a great deal about keeping Quebec in the fold. Well think of it like a family. Do you think the kid needs the father more or the father needs the dad more? I'm speaking from a financial point of view here and I agree that may analogy may not be the best..

[dvdvideo]

It promotes unity and I don't think the education system is doing a good job of promoting it at a young age. I wasn't expose to French until I was in grade five.

Actually, technically promoting unity would be better served by adopting a single language, to bond us all together. You don't hear about american states wanted to suceed from the USA very often, let a lone have entire political parties dedicated to ripping apart the country.

I was forced to take french in school for years. I have ZERO practical or personal use for it, and remember very little of it at this point.

[NG]

Read carefully, I never said it's not discrimination. I just said it's not racist.

Sigh...don't tell me what to read carefully. I know exactly what you said. My point is the difference between discrimination and racism is really a hairs difference and moot. For all intenseive purposes, in everyday life, they're one in the same.

Glad to see you agree it's discrimination however :)

[NG]

Quebec would be screwed if we decide to place economic sanctions on them. Quebec needs Canada more than Canada need Quebec. One may argue why are the federalists making such a great deal about keeping Quebec in the fold. Well think of it like a family. Do you think the kid needs the father more or the father needs the dad more? I'm speaking from a financial point of view here and I agree that may analogy may not be the best..

I'm sure they'd do fine. Just like how we would without the US.

[NG]

Actually, technically promoting unity would be better served by adopting a single language, to bond us all together.

I suspect that'd push seperation over the edge. However if we picked French as our national language then that'd be ok ;)


You don't hear about american states wanted to suceed from the USA very often, let a lone have entire political parties dedicated to ripping apart the country.

That's starting to change with the left/right divide that is mostly along state lines.

There's also been a seperationist movement in Hawaii for awhile:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=%2Fnews%2Farchive%2F2003%2F10%2F1 9%2Fstate2004EDT0070.DTL&type=printable

[ronin893]

I didn't claim to be better then anyone, though some people like to think they are. To me there is no difference if you are white or black, the rich or poor, British or French...they are all people in the end. Do you think you are better then separatists? Maybe it is because of people like you that they want to seperate. :mad: I think I have a better attitude than the people who like to say "screw 'em, they're a bunch of whiners". We should argue why Canada is one of the greatest countries in the world and how the federal government had been reasonable in its treatment of Quebec. We should not adopt an uninformed Reform-Alliance attitude towards Quebec. How many Conservatives won a seat in Quebec in the most recent election, huh? Chew on that when you wonder why they want to seperate.

[guest10586]

I think I have a better attitude than the people who like to say "screw 'em, they're a bunch of whiners". We should argue why Canada is one of the greatest countries in the world and how the federal government had been reasonable in its treatment of Quebec. We should not adopt an uninformed Reform-Alliance attitude towards Quebec. How many Conservatives won a seat in Quebec in the most recent election, huh? Chew on that when you wonder why they want to seperate.

The same amount that the Bloc won in Alberta, BC, Sask and Manitoba...zero. Alliance was created to counteract the Bloc. I don't agree with their religous viewpoint but if they didn't have that I would probably vote for them. Bloc and Quebec wanted to seperate far before Reform was around. So yeah, I chewed on what you said...and I spit it back out...now its your turn to chew it.

[Sgt_Strider]

Sigh...don't tell me what to read carefully. I know exactly what you said. My point is the difference between discrimination and racism is really a hairs difference and moot. For all intenseive purposes, in everyday life, they're one in the same.

Glad to see you agree it's discrimination however :)

The fact of the matter is that there is a difference or otherwise I wouldn't have a post about it.

[Sgt_Strider]

I'm sure they'd do fine. Just like how we would without the US.

No way, their economy is heavily integrated with the rest of Canada. Their economy would collapse if we place economic sanctions on them. We won't be fine w/o the U.S; not when more than 80% of our exports go down south.

[ronin893]

The same amount that the Bloc won in Alberta, BC, Sask and Manitoba...zero. Alliance was created to counteract the Bloc. I don't agree with their religous viewpoint but if they didn't have that I would probably vote for them. Bloc and Quebec wanted to seperate far before Reform was around. So yeah, I chewed on what you said...and I spit it back out...now its your turn to chew it.
Nice to see you agree that the Bloc are as bad as the born-again Alliance when it comes to national unity. It's funny that, for someone living in Edmonton, you don't know why the Reform-Alliance was created. They were created because the West was disaffected from the Tories after the Mulroney years, not as a counter to the Bloc.

It's true that the Quebec seperatist movement started before the creation of the Reform Party, but the attitudes that the Reform upholds predate the creation of the PQ.

[NG]

I agreed that there was a hairs difference and said that difference is really moot. Your statement is redundent since I did say that there is a minor difference however that difference doesn't matter in real life.

The fact of the matter is that there is a difference or otherwise I wouldn't have a post about it.

I would like to hear the differences you see in the two of them *and* how each difference would result in a different reaction/result etc in real life.

[NG]

No way, their economy is heavily integrated with the rest of Canada. Their economy would collapse if we place economic sanctions on them. We won't be fine w/o the U.S; not when more than 80% of our exports go down south.

You've provided no new ideas for intelligent discourse - just dictating your opinion.

We're not spinning in wheels regarding this tangent. However I believe I was in the opinion of the majority regarding that debate so whatever - enjoy your opinion.

[Sgt_Strider]

I agreed that there was a hairs difference and said that difference is really moot. Your statement is redundent since I did say that there is a minor difference however that difference doesn't matter in real life.



I would like to hear the differences you see in the two of them *and* how each difference would result in a different reaction/result etc in real life.

It wasn't redundant because it wasn't obvious to others. It may have to you, but certainly not others.

Can it not be more obvious now that the distinction is set?

[Sgt_Strider]

You've provided no new ideas for intelligent discourse - just dictating your opinion.

We're not spinning in wheels regarding this tangent. However I believe I was in the opinion of the majority regarding that debate so whatever - enjoy your opinion.

Neither have you. We live in a democratic society and I will enjoy mine, but nonetheless I still believe yours is wrong.

[NG]

It wasn't redundant because it wasn't obvious to others. It may have to you, but certainly not others.

Can it not be more obvious now that the distinction is set?

I see no real difference between the two and how they affect people in real life. I would still not mind a comparison.

[Sgt_Strider]

I see no real difference between the two and how they affect people in real life. I would still not mind a comparison.

I'll make it easy for people to decide. Here are the definitions of the word according to dictionary.com

Discrimination:
n.
The act of discriminating.
The ability or power to see or make fine distinctions; discernment.
Treatment or consideration based on class or category rather than individual merit; partiality or prejudice: racial discrimination; discrimination against foreigners.


Racism:
n.
The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

[guest10586]

Nice to see you agree that the Bloc are as bad as the born-again Alliance when it comes to national unity. It's funny that, for someone living in Edmonton, you don't know why the Reform-Alliance was created. They were created because the West was disaffected from the Tories after the Mulroney years, not as a counter to the Bloc.

It's true that the Quebec seperatist movement started before the creation of the Reform Party, but the attitudes that the Reform upholds predate the creation of the PQ.

Zzzzz...Ok, get hung up on the timeline. Bloc suck, Alliance suck, Liberals suck...they all suck. We should just seperate, that way you don't have to like me and I don't have to like you...it just works out better. I'm sure after a few decades we will be getting along like old pals. Lets face it, why should we really stick together, just cause we took some Native American's land together way back when? Give me some good legit reasons on why Quebec should stay with Canada and why the west provinces should stay with Canada.

[HoTiCE_]

even though i hate to see it happen but


Canada = fubar

[ronin893]

Zzzzz...Ok, get hung up on the timeline. Bloc suck, Alliance suck, Liberals suck...they all suck. We should just seperate, that way you don't have to like me and I don't have to like you...it just works out better. I'm sure after a few decades we will be getting along like old pals. Lets face it, why should we really stick together, just cause we took some Native American's land together way back when? Give me some good legit reasons on why Quebec should stay with Canada and why the west provinces should stay with Canada.OK, I updated my profile to show that I live in Ottawa. I used to live in Quebec; I like Quebec. I don't mind Alberta despite how the newspapers here like to portray them, and I would like to visit that province some day. I just don't like the politicians from Alberta or Quebec.

For starters, if Alberta seperates, they will be North Montana, in other words, they will be a small fish in the sea called the USA. In the next couple of decades, Alberta will grow politically more powerful and will have more weight in Ottawa simply because of their oil industry. However, if they become North Montana, Washington will impose a sequel to the NEP policy which will make many Albertans wish for the original NEP.

I like Quebec to stay in Canada because they're cool and I like poutine. :) Quebec still represents a big chunk of the Canadian ecomony, even though Ottawa sends them more money than it collects. Regardless, I think the reason to keep Quebec is more cultural than economic. The French culture is integral to Canadian culture. Without the French, we would merely be a bunch of former loyalists who would not have survived an American invasion after the US won their revolutionary war.

[guest10586]

OK, I updated my profile to show that I live in Ottawa. I used to live in Quebec; I like Quebec. I don't mind Alberta despite how the newspapers here like to portray them, and I would like to visit that province some day. I just don't like the politicians from Alberta or Quebec.

For starters, if Alberta seperates, they will be North Montana, in other words, they will be a small fish in the sea called the USA. In the next couple of decades, Alberta will grow politically more powerful and will have more weight in Ottawa simply because of their oil industry. However, if they become North Montana, Washington will impose a sequel to the NEP policy which will make many Albertans wish for the original NEP.

I like Quebec to stay in Canada because they're cool and I like poutine. :) Quebec still represents a big chunk of the Canadian ecomony, even though Ottawa sends them more money than it collects. Regardless, I think the reason to keep Quebec is more cultural than economic. The French culture is integral to Canadian culture. Without the French, we would merely be a bunch of former loyalists who would not have survived an American invasion after the US won their revolutionary war.

Why didn't you just say you had no arguement before we started this...quit wasting my time. :mad:

As for your newspapers, I hope they say some really bad things about us...it just give everyone more reason to seperate in the end.