Given the times, would you support a movement to reduce Muslim immigration?

[Mace]

asim99, I am calling on you to state your case - in 500 words or less - as to why Muslim immigration should at present remain at current levels (apprx. 50,000/year) or increase.

Two conditions -

1) No name-calling.
2) No mention of Tamils.

:)

[sk8]

Can you explain. By reducing muslim population here, how can you reduce terrorism?

Are we talking numbers? Stats? # of terrorists per square kmeters?

[i6s1]

Muslim immigration should increase because muslims are far more likely to be radicalized in the ME then they are here. The more muslims come to Canada, the more moderate muslims there are in the world.

The number of muslims here doesn't make much difference for terrorism, if there aren't enough Islamofacists trained as pilots in the USA, OBL can import them from SA.

[ChinpokoMon]

Flame on!
http://us.movies1.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/twentieth_century_fox/fantastic_four/chris_evans/fantastic4.jpg

[i6s1]

oh yeah, in before lock.

[Rehan]

Mace, how about if the poll question is changed to ask whether the Muslim immigration should be changed relative to immigration of other visible minorities?
(That probably won't fit in the poll question itself, so put it in the opening post.)

[Marc7]

*** :twisted:

[Absolute]

Given the times?? You mean terrorism? I'm confused as to the reasons.

[afong56]

can the op explain how this poll is not flat out ignorance and racism?

what an ugly, ugly sentiment it represents. . .

[Mace]

Mace, how about if the poll question is changed to ask whether the Muslim immigration should be changed relative to immigration of other visible minorities?
(That probably won't fit in the poll question itself, so put it in the opening post.)

I can do that - but how about unlocking the previous Muslim immigration poll thread first, and I'll rephrase the poll question here -

[eelfliw]

What does religion have to do with immigration anyways?

Our charter of rights guarantees religious freedom. If the immigration dept denies an application based on the religious believes of the applicant, the immigration dept is operating in contravention of the charter.

[Marc7]

This thread is racist indeed.

let us say this is done, what do u wanna do with the muslims here?

either way, this will be falling in alqaida trap. I'll let u figure why, if anything, they are successfully polarizing the world.

here is an excerpt I read:

This, in turn, translates into misunderstanding and resentment among some Muslims and local populations that may lead to an agreeable environment for certain al-Qaeda or al-Qaeda affiliated organizations to orchestrate similar bombings in more European capitals.


from http://www.pinr.com/report.php?ac=view_report&report_id=324&language_id=1

[konfusion666]

lol, i don't know why he is so persistent.

[asim99]

asim99, I am calling on you to state your case - in 500 words or less - as to why Muslim immigration should at present remain at current levels (apprx. 50,000/year) or increase.

Two conditions -

1) No name-calling.
2) No mention of Tamils.

:)

actually tamils are a proven great and serious concern to the safety of canadians, muslims are not

[Rehan]

Mace, do you know the difference between an Ismaili and a "Wahhabi"? Are they both in the same category for immigration? (Answer without googling... :) )

[asim99]

this racist and muslim-phobic thread should be locked

[Txiasaeia]

No. A terrorist with Muslim beliefs can just as easily pretend to be an adherent of another religion in order to gain entry into Canada. Limiting Muslims into the country to *live* isn't going to change anything, because a foreign-born terrorist from any nation can visit Canada and blow themselves up just as easily. Nothing is going to prevent a dedicated terrorist from achieving their goal.

Given the times, I would love to support a movement to reduce the ability of racists to enter the country.

88 words.

[asim99]

What does religion have to do with immigration anyways?

Our charter of rights guarantees religious freedom. If the immigration dept denies an application based on the religious believes of the applicant, the immigration dept is operating in contravention of the charter.

the original poster (a tamil) seems to have immigrated with a lot of undesirable luggage, and seems to be ignorant enough to realize that the opinion of his kind belong only to a racist minority group

that could be the result of a racist and muslim-phobic background

[Mace]

Damn asim99 what did I say about name-calling and mentioning Tamils.

You know what the unfortunate result of all this is? I can't even watch The Daily Show anymore - I look at Jon Stewart and I see asim99... and I'm forced to vomit.

[Txiasaeia]

Damn asim99 what did I say about name-calling and mentioning Tamils.

No offense, but you want to limit the immigration of Muslims into Canada. This can only be described by a reasonable person as racist. And how can somebody naming your ethnic group be considered to be name-calling?

[SuperFriend_XP]

No offense, but you want to limit the immigration of Muslims into Canada. This can only be described by a reasonable person as racist. And how can somebody naming your ethnic group be considered to be name-calling?


I dont know what pile of **** you crawled out of Mace, but you definitely are a bigot. And no, thats not name calling; its a fact.

[north77]

I support a reduction in immigration of elderly people.

Healthcare can't handle the aging population we have now effectively, let alone adding to the 'burden.' :(

[astrolad]

No to that question but if the question were should immigration of persons who have been convicted violent crimes be denied or even should individuals who have been linked to terrorists groups be denied entry into Canada (provided "linked" was well defined), my answer would be different.

Notice no mention of race, creed or religon required. ;)

[Ojam]

Ban him already, he has already kept making thread after thread saying the samething, after the other have been locked. He has made personal attacks against the people that disagree with him.

[SuperFriend_XP]

Ban him already, he has already kept making thread after thread saying the samething, after the other have been locked. He has made personal attacks against the people that disagree with him.


I second that. It would be different if he carried out intelligent conversations but this punk knows nothing of ethic.

[Absolute]

Why do we need such flame-attracting topics on here?

[15-20_God]

I think he should limit immigration to hot women exclusively, regardless of background or belief.

[ChinpokoMon]

I think he should limit immigration to hot women exclusively, regardless of background or belief.

That's the first intelligent post I've read in this thread.

[bubble.tea]

I'm not muslim, I'm a Canadian of +20yrs.

I find this thread racist...and of the low intellect calibre of the ign'ant Americains.

What is even MORE insulting is that 10 of you mis-guided, fanatic, and disgustingly useless individuals, to our beautiful nation, voted yes to the question.

where's the lock.

[hagbard]

Mace, do you know the difference between an Ismaili and a "Wahhabi"? Are they both in the same category for immigration? (Answer without googling... :) )

Ismaili's know how to party!!!

[StarStrike]

I second that. It would be different if he carried out intelligent conversations but this punk knows nothing of ethic.

I third that motion.

[asim99]

Damn asim99 what did I say about name-calling and mentioning Tamils.

You know what the unfortunate result of all this is? I can't even watch The Daily Show anymore - I look at Jon Stewart and I see asim99... and I'm forced to vomit.

don't vomit...just take the cyanide pill you got with your ltte training, like a good racist tamil terrorist is trained to...the world will be better off because of that

for those who dont know the well-known fact i am talking about, google ltte & cyanide (http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=ltte+cyanide&meta=)

also, check out http://www.spur.asn.au/canada.htm to see how tamil tiger terrorist activities have been reported in canada

[Baia.]

i find this topic racist, but MANY of the poster are being racist.

asim99 against tamils (btw can i c the facts that they are a threat to canadians?)

bubble.tea against americans



most of you people have all grown to be sterotypical against americans and we all accept that?

[luthair]

bubble.tea against americans

most of you people have all grown to be racist against americans and we all accept that?

You can't be racist against a country... ;) Sterotyping would probably be the appropriate term.

[Baia.]

You can't be racist against a country... ;) Sterotyping would probably be the appropriate term.


ok sry for sayin it inncorretly...

fixed :)

[ill_mango]

hasn't this topic been done to death now? Come on mace, come up with something new

[Beradon]

No offense, but you want to limit the immigration of Muslims into Canada. This can only be described by a reasonable person as racist. incorrect terminology. A muslim is a person who practices Islam. There is no race involved.

[d_jedi]

I find this thread racist...and of the low intellect calibre of the ign'ant Americains.
I find your post just as discriminatory as OP's with comments like that.

[bubble.tea]

I find your post just as discriminatory as OP's with comments like that.
You can't take comments like that seriously...we're all taught that the Americain's have poor world-geography (where's Canada?), not to mention awareness of what goes out outside their own country...let alone their own city. lol. I hope to God it's not entirely representative of the entire population...but I'm afraid finding more than 15% of the pop'n who DON'T fit into this category will be quite difficult.

[kilarney]

This thread is just biased :evil: Don't you think all the prejudice towards Islam or/and Muslims will create more attacks.

[bubble.tea]

You can't be racist against a country... ;) Sterotyping would probably be the appropriate term.

thank you. and actually I'm not to blame...it's the MEDIA!!! lol

case in point? George W. Bush. how do you spell potaTOE? :D

Main Entry: rac·ism
Pronunciation: 'rA-"si-z&m also -"shi-
Function: noun
1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2 : racial prejudice or discrimination

Actually you can be racist against a country I guess. I apologize to all. I'm truly by far not a racist...just choose inappropriate times to incorporate media propogate stereotypes into my comments.

Cheers.

come on though...when Americains ask "don't all canadian live in igloos"...doesn't that just burn yer butt?

[fishlips20]

Ah man... this is one post that shouldn't exist....

Hey... doesn't Canada pride itself on something called multiculturalism?
This post should refer to closing or reducing immigration... the cultural ties are not necessary, and some people may take offense to it.

And no, i'm not muslim.

[Mace]

If I knew that there were a few Tamil radicals that hated Western society, that there were even a few born-and-raised disaffected and pissed off Canadian Tamils that would seriously consider detonating a bomb in Union station, and I knew that 50,000 new Tamils were entering the country annually - I'd say "hey it makes sense to limit Tamil immigration now. After all, you open the floodgates and a few seriously bad apples are bound to slip through the cracks. And it is impossible to monitor the movements of 50,000 new Tamil immigrants each year - a few of whom will have sympathies with the radicals that want to see stuff destroyed in Canada."

Why is it unreasonable for Canadians to ask for a curtailment of this migration? It's an utterly sensible, proactive approach to combatting the prospect of terrorism within our borders.

What must be understood is that racists are motivated by hate. This measure is implemented out of a legitimate concern for Canada's security - and any such debate must emphasize this.

[Baia.]

If I knew that there were a few Tamil radicals that hated Western society, that there were even a few born-and-raised disaffected and pissed off Canadian Tamils that would seriously consider detonating a bomb in Union station, and I knew that 50,000 new Tamils were entering the country annually - I'd say "hey it makes sense to limit Tamil immigration now. After all, you open the floodgates and a few seriously bad apples are bound to slip through the cracks. And it is impossible to monitor the movements of 50,000 new Tamil immigrants each year - a few of whom will have sympathies with the radicals that want to see stuff destroyed in Canada."

Why is it unreasonable for Canadians to ask for a curtailment of this migration? It's an utterly sensible, proactive approach to combatting the prospect of terrorism within our borders.

What must be understood is that racists are motivated by hate. This measure is implemented out of a legitimate concern for Canada's security - and any such debate must emphasize this.

you put it nicely, but here is the thing ( i think is the problem )

If we stop one type of population from entering, it wont stop the terrorist attacks fully, also its not always the whole population that are bad, u cant make the whole population of a country suffer b/c of some bad apples. It's just hard to stop these idiots, we got to change them from thier own countrys to stop having these radical ways and fight thier battles with words instead of blowin them self up.

[Mace]

You bring up some very good points - I like your input because you force me (along with others) to explore all angles of this very contentious issue in a very reasoned, rational way - I think we all benefit from this dialgoue.

It's hard to reconcile treating an entire community apart when it's small but very toxic minority that poses great danger. But that is the unfortunate reality and that reality is not going to go away if we don't take a proactive approach and properly address it.

All the Muslims I know are well adjusted - it's just that tiny, disenfranchised minority that is very, very dangerous. By in large, the disenfranchised of most groups take up anti-social ills like gangs, drugs etc. These things (though harmful) don't endanger the security of the society on a national scale - crackdealers are not going to suicide bomb BCE Place.

But the Muslim community is very different. Though the VAST majority of Muslims are well adjusted, what of the few disenfranchised, disaffected, and disillusioned Muslims that are not? What is to say that a very small disenfranchised minority of the rapidly growing Muslim community won't be brainwashed by radical fundamentalist preachings - like the boys in Britain?

If anything, the case in London has shown that even seemingly normal guys - like the ones that did the suicide bombings - are susceptible to hate-filled preachings - preachings that gravely endanger our society as a whole.

[toalan]

The topic should be changed to "given the times, would you support a movement to reduce immigration from countries that are invaded or screwed around with by the US"

This is not a religious thing, this is about countries getting screwed in the arse by the west, that are now seeking payback.

[Ferman]

The topic should be changed to "given the times, would you support a movement to reduce immigration from countries that are invaded or screwed around with by the US"

This is not a religious thing, this is about countries getting screwed in the arse by the west, that are now seeking payback.

Are you trying to justify the terrorists' actions?

[Mace]

Muslims are not the first or only peoples in the world to have suffered poverty or invasion, and to blame such factors for the actions of the lunatics amongst them is to hold Muslims to a lower standard of behaviour than the rest of humanity.

[Baia.]

The topic should be changed to "given the times, would you support a movement to reduce immigration from countries that are invaded or screwed around with by the US"

This is not a religious thing, this is about countries getting screwed in the arse by the west, that are now seeking payback.


why does everyone hate on the US?
US is like the world's police, we need law and order...lets say US wasn't the Super power of the world, and China was, would u hate them? Or possibly India?
Yes, you probley would, but with out them you would have much more damage and civil wars. (i think, not a fact. Just an opinion)

Think of it as a 'City' problem, US being the police officers. They invade drug dealers houses / other peoples' houses to make sure nothin bad happens.

[Ferman]

why does everyone hate on the US?
US is like the world's police, we need law and order...lets say US wasn't the Super power of the world, and China was, would u hate them? Or possibly India?


If if they started to attack shanghai, I'd like to see how China would deal with the suicide bombers, and their countries of origin.

Everyone seems to have a thing for the US, but the Chinese superpower would be much more brutal.

[Baia.]

You bring up some very good points - I like your input because you force me (along with others) to explore all angles of this very contentious issue in a very reasoned, rational way - I think we all benefit from this dialgoue.

It's hard to reconcile treating an entire community apart when it's small but very toxic minority that poses great danger. But that is the unfortunate reality and that reality is not going to go away if we don't take a proactive approach and properly address it.

All the Muslims I know are well adjusted - it's just that tiny, disenfranchised minority that is very, very dangerous. By in large, the disenfranchised of most groups take up anti-social ills like gangs, drugs etc. These things (though harmful) don't endanger the security of the society on a national scale - crackdealers are not going to suicide bomb BCE Place.

But the Muslim community is very different. Though the VAST majority of Muslims are well adjusted, what of the few disenfranchised, disaffected, and disillusioned Muslims that are not? What is to say that a very small disenfranchised minority of the rapidly growing Muslim community won't be brainwashed by radical fundamentalist preachings - like the boys in Britain?

If anything, the case in London has shown that even seemingly normal guys - like the ones that did the suicide bombings - are susceptible to hate-filled preachings - preachings that gravely endanger our society as a whole.


Yes, i agree this topic is very interesting and thanx you for saying i bring up some good ideas.

Now to reply to your post

I am a Student in high school, and its a catholic one but we get many different religions (they just have to pay a $50.00 fee to get in, i think)

I am an arab/indian. Born in Kuwait, but parents from India (i consider my self Kuwaity)
anywayz i have alot of arab friends, there are alot of arabs in my school (not all muslims) Anyways, most of my arab friend say, they would blow them self up to kill americans. (these are 16-18 year olds) Its very disturbing to me.

I'm guessing most of you people are older and in the work force and arent around these types of conversation so u cant really see/hear what i hear.

You could take this as 2 things ... kids being stupid and say stuff they dont know OR kids being very radical and thier parents putting ideas into thier ideas.

So what am i getting to?
I think the threat of new terriost are still high, and need to be dealt with by educating the ignorant parents at home that are teaching thier kids to do terriosts act or giving them ideas/encourgment to commit on.


Again i'm not saying ever arab/muslim in the world is like this. So dont take this as racism/sterotypin the whole population.

[Baia.]

If if they started to attack shanghai, I'd like to see how China would deal with the suicide bombers, and their countries of origin.

Everyone seems to have a thing for the US, but the Chinese superpower would be much more brutal.


i think ur backin me up, (i might be wrong)
but yah ur correct i know if this happened to alot of other countries (example China, India, North Korea-crazy) they would deal with the problem much harsher.

[Ferman]

anywayz i have alot of arab friends, there are alot of arabs in my school (not all muslims) Anyways, most of my arab friend say, they would blow them self up to kill americans. (these are 16-18 year olds) Its very disturbing to me.



I also find this very distubing, care to mention which city this highschool is in?

These people who say such things should be punished even more that those that incite hate towards homosexuals..unfortunately, thats not the case.

[Baia.]

i'm sure its not only in my city (mississauga)

but u cant really punish people that are under the legal age limit, and havent done anything b/c they might never do anything

[Ferman]

i'm sure its not only in my city (mississauga)

but u cant really punish people that are under the legal age limit, and havent done anything b/c they might never do anything

I don't think so.. see what happens if you threaten to hijack a plane when your in the air, but then say you didn't mean it.

[Baia.]

i dunno, what does happen?

ur set free?

[Singh_21]

i dunno, what does happen?

ur set free?

lol..u kidding me?

[Ferman]

i dunno, what does happen?

ur set free?

Ask your friends to give a try sometime.. just for laughs.

[Baia.]

just askin a question...
might help if u explained instead of poked fun. Maybe thats what makes u feel big inside, i dont know

[jerryhussain]

can the op explain how this poll is not flat out ignorance and racism?

what an ugly, ugly sentiment it represents. . .
This thread is racist indeed.

let us say this is done, what do u wanna do with the muslims here?

either way, this will be falling in alqaida trap. I'll let u figure why, if anything, they are successfully polarizing the world.

here is an excerpt I read:

This, in turn, translates into misunderstanding and resentment among some Muslims and local populations that may lead to an agreeable environment for certain al-Qaeda or al-Qaeda affiliated organizations to orchestrate similar bombings in more European capitals.


from http://www.pinr.com/report.php?ac=view_report&report_id=324&language_id=1
this racist and muslim-phobic thread should be locked
I dont know what pile of **** you crawled out of Mace, but you definitely are a bigot. And no, thats not name calling; its a fact.
I second that. It would be different if he carried out intelligent conversations but this punk knows nothing of ethic.
Why do we need such flame-attracting topics on here?
I'm not muslim, I'm a Canadian of +20yrs.

I find this thread racist...and of the low intellect calibre of the ign'ant Americains.

What is even MORE insulting is that 10 of you mis-guided, fanatic, and disgustingly useless individuals, to our beautiful nation, voted yes to the question.

where's the lock.
i find this topic racist, but MANY of the poster are being racist.

asim99 against tamils (btw can i c the facts that they are a threat to canadians?)

bubble.tea against americans



most of you people have all grown to be sterotypical against americans and we all accept that?
This thread is just biased :evil: Don't you think all the prejudice towards Islam or/and Muslims will create more attacks.
Ban him already, he has already kept making thread after thread saying the samething, after the other have been locked. He has made personal attacks against the people that disagree with him.
How many more hints do the mods need ? :|

[Ferman]

just askin a question...
might help if u explained instead of poked fun. Maybe thats what makes u feel big inside, i dont know

I thought you were joking, but apparently not.

That would be a very serious offense, and you probably would spend some time in jail, or if under 18, in some kind of detention center while you would be 'counseled'

[toalan]

why does everyone hate on the US?
US is like the world's police, we need law and order...lets say US wasn't the Super power of the world, and China was, would u hate them? Or possibly India?
Yes, you probley would, but with out them you would have much more damage and civil wars. (i think, not a fact. Just an opinion)

Think of it as a 'City' problem, US being the police officers. They invade drug dealers houses / other peoples' houses to make sure nothin bad happens.

No one will generally try to kill you unless you did some pretty bad things to them. Of course there is no justification to killing but there is reason for it. The US supplied IRAQ with weapons and training so IRAQies could fight IRAN so that the oil would continue to flow. The US supplied weapons and training to Afghanistan to fight against Russia, the result was about 1 million people died in Afghanistan. In both cases the US made the monster, used the monster for its own good and then made a quick exit.

The terriorists kill for vengance, the US kills for oil, who is the greater of 2 evils? The US kills buy dropping bombs, the terriorists kill also by using bombs, I really do not see the difference between the tatics used by either side. A bomb dropped from a F18 is somehow more nicer than a bomb on a train? I only see the difference in the reason for killing. The US uses CNN to brainwash its people, the Afghans use religion.

[Baia.]

k nicely said, but would u agree, alot of the terriost attacks are against civilians (sp)

and the US against building and suspected bad people?

[toalan]

k nicely said, but would u agree, alot of the terriost attacks are against civilians (sp)

and the US against building and suspected bad people?

You have to consider the magnitude, 1 million afghans dead, vs Twin towers. If Twins Towers is worse then you are saying 1 american life is of more value than 500 Afghan lives.

I do believe the US tries its best to kill more soldiers than civilians but that is because they have the power to kill a large number of soldiers. The terriorist can only kill civilians because they do not have the weapons needed to kill a large number of soldiers. I think even Bin Laden said on tape, that his real intent was not the average US citizen.

Anyways I am not saying that terriorism is right, not by a long stretch. I am just saying the US is just as filthy as the terriorists, probably even more so.

[toalan]

Think of it this way; Qubec wants to be seperate from Canada, US supplies Quebec with weapons and training, Quebec goes to war with Canada and 1 million Canadians/Quebecers die. You lose your family and all your property, would you be a little bit pissed?

[toalan]

Anyways this board is no place for a disscussion such as this. I think the original posted should get banned for putting up a poll that is as racist as this. This is unacceptable, absolutely unacceptable.

[jui_jui]

voted "no" because i don't believe that is fair and it's not right

[i6s1]

You have to consider the magnitude, 1 million afghans dead, vs Twin towers. If Twins Towers is worse then you are saying 1 american life is of more value than 500 Afghan lives.

No, its the intent. A driver who kills 10 people by accident deserves less blame then someone who kills 1 intentionally. America would have prefered that 0 people died in the Afghan conflict - that the Soviets didn't invade, and there would be no need for an insurgence. But given the facts (that the Soviets did invade, and there were people willing to fight and die to keep the Reds out), the US was willing to supply and train the insurgence because it was in thier best interests. The US doesn't deserve sole responsibility for 1m dead, as you imply, but AQ deserves sole responsibility for 3000 dead.

Magnitude is one thing, intent is another.


I do believe the US tries its best to kill more soldiers than civilians but that is because they have the power to kill a large number of soldiers. The terriorist can only kill civilians because they do not have the weapons needed to kill a large number of soldiers. I think even Bin Laden said on tape, that his real intent was not the average US citizen.

If they can only kill civilians, then too bad, they shouldn't be fighting. You're making an excuse for a murdering facist.


Anyways I am not saying that terriorism is right, not by a long stretch. I am just saying the US is just as filthy as the terriorists, probably even more so.

[Ryan]

Anyway, this has gone one long enough. Lock.