Give Quebec 2 federal votes per voter to eliminate seperation?

[NG]

A liminted form of seperation if you will.

Each Quebecois voter gets two vote for 2 different reps in their Federal riding.

One vote for a rep to represent themselves in Canada as a whole and another vote for a rep (kinda like the BQ now) for a rep to represent their Quebec interests.

The Liberals, NDP, and Cons run their choice in the Canadian rep election.

The BQ, ADQ, and another party run their choice in the Quebec rep election.

Of course this would only work if any party running in Quebec either on the Quebec section or the Canadian section agreed not to advocate seperation.

[LoganKHR]

why cow tow to one province either they stay or they go give em too much they will just want more so forget it if they want to leave so badly let em it's the people that decide not the party in power but if the leave they should have to pay off thier share of the deficit and mint thier own money

Quebec canot survive without the transfer payments from the canadian feds not to mention no one else wants em within a year of seperation they will be moaning to come back

oh by the way thats just one more thing for them to ***** about

[Lonely Soldier Boy]

Worst.Idea.Ever.

Montrealer.

[NG]

Worst.Idea.Ever.

Montrealer.

Thank you for stating your opinion in such a polite fashion.

Do you have a better idea to solve Quebec disconnent within Canada?

[guest10586]

:arrowu: :rolleyes:

[Txiasaeia]

Why not two votes for aboriginal peoples, then? Two votes for women? Two votes for gays? All of these groups, to some extent, feel oppressed within Canada. Equality is equality is equality. I'm sorry, but it would never work, and you still wouldn't make people happier, because you're still voting for politicians whose interests inevitably lie with themselves and their parties rather than their constituents.

[Samir]

Quebec sovereignty is an issue that is kind of complex. It's tough to say "Quebec wants to separate" because there are certain groups in Quebec who are opposed to seperation to the tone of 99% (Anglophone Jews in Montreal, for example).

The fact is, it's not about money or symoblic bilingualism or anything. It's about respect. The French Quebeccers have been saying since 1960 "We'll stay in the country if you just **** off and less us do our own thing!" to which Ottawa has just responded with more money and empty promises.

I myself am not a separatist and never will be, but I understand them.

The thing is, if English Canada is to coexist with French Canada, people have to understand each other, but no one is making an effort any effort. Having spent a lot of time in rural Quebec and in Ontario, I can say: The average Torontonian has no ****ing clue about the Quebecois mentality and the average Jean-Guy from Chicoutimi has no clue about the rest of Canada and thinks that all English speaking people are boogeymen.

Imagine if Canada & USA were majoritarily French countries and the only big English city was Toronto. 330 million French people on the continent and 8 million English people. Wouldn't you do everything in your power to maintain the English language too?

Is this kind of national disconnect natural since the country is so big-assed? I don't know, the US is pretty big-ass and much more spread out over its territory as opposed to just being stacked on the Can-Am border, but they are a very united country.

[purple_rabbit]

Being a Quebecker myself who lived 10 years in the greater montreal area, I can tell you that the idea of seperation is not a general one. Although some anglophones in Quebec voted for BQ from the last general election, it was because they were sick and tired of the liberals. And quite frankly, there is no other party in Quebec who can really look after Quebecker's interests apart from the BQ's and liberals and the liberals f*cked up. Quite frankly everyone in Quebec is sick of the liberals.

I'm not a seperatist, but if the liberals keep screwing up, I might just become one and bare in mind I'm anglophone

[NG]

Being a Quebecker myself who lived 10 years in the greater montreal area, I can tell you that the idea of seperation is not a general one. Although some anglophones in Quebec voted for BQ from the last general election, it was because they were sick and tired of the liberals. And quite frankly, there is no other party in Quebec who can really look after Quebecker's interests apart from the BQ's and liberals and the liberals f*cked up. Quite frankly everyone in Quebec is sick of the liberals.

I'm not a seperatist, but if the liberals keep screwing up, I might just become one and bare in mind I'm anglophone

Good point. I've always found it odd that there was only 2 viable parties in Quebec since with the seperation issue you'd think that *more* choices would be good. Like atleast 2 federalist parties and 2 separtist parties to chose from.

Why do you think that the NDP and ADQ have never been able to get traction there?

[NG]

Quebec sovereignty is an issue that is kind of complex. It's tough to say "Quebec wants to separate" because there are certain groups in Quebec who are opposed to seperation to the tone of 99% (Anglophone Jews in Montreal, for example).

The fact is, it's not about money or symoblic bilingualism or anything. It's about respect. The French Quebeccers have been saying since 1960 "We'll stay in the country if you just **** off and less us do our own thing!" to which Ottawa has just responded with more money and empty promises.

I myself am not a separatist and never will be, but I understand them.

The thing is, if English Canada is to coexist with French Canada, people have to understand each other, but no one is making an effort any effort. Having spent a lot of time in rural Quebec and in Ontario, I can say: The average Torontonian has no ****ing clue about the Quebecois mentality and the average Jean-Guy from Chicoutimi has no clue about the rest of Canada and thinks that all English speaking people are boogeymen.

Imagine if Canada & USA were majoritarily French countries and the only big English city was Toronto. 330 million French people on the continent and 8 million English people. Wouldn't you do everything in your power to maintain the English language too?

Is this kind of national disconnect natural since the country is so big-assed? I don't know, the US is pretty big-ass and much more spread out over its territory as opposed to just being stacked on the Can-Am border, but they are a very united country.

You're right. Anglophones don't know much about Quebec. And I'm as guilty of that as anyone dispite liking Quebec. All I do know is that they seem like they actually have a cultural industry there and that they are more "european" than the rest of Canada.

In all honesty I kinda want the reverse of what Quebec is afraid of english Canada. I want *them* to assimlate *us* .

[Ferman]

Why not two votes for aboriginal peoples, then? Two votes for women? Two votes for gays? All of these groups, to some extent, feel oppressed within Canada. Equality is equality is equality. I'm sorry, but it would never work, and you still wouldn't make people happier, because you're still voting for politicians whose interests inevitably lie with themselves and their parties rather than their constituents.

I agree.

Hey, lets not forget about letting the western provinces have two votes as well.

[Lonely Soldier Boy]

Thank you for stating your opinion in such a polite fashion.

Do you have a better idea to solve Quebec disconnent within Canada?

Several. Won't bother listing them all. No electoral reforms will change Quebec for the better (except possibly forcing the corrupt politicians here to redraft the electoral boundaries so that Montreal has a number of seats congruent to its population). As soon as that is done, the PQ will have to tone down its rhetoric in order to be electable.

My province is, socially, more than 20 or 30 years behind the times and needs a big fat kick in the butt. This is not related to the French language or anything like that - rather it is the ideals of the people that live here that read like they are out of a 60s or 70s history book. I am convinced that Quebec is stuck in a period of stagnation until the next great leader comes here and converts us all (kicking and screaming) into a more open and globalized society. This isn't as hard to do as it may sound; Quebec has been gifted with some great leaders in the past.

Lesvesque - Even if you're an anglophone federalist, you can respect him. One could walk into his office and talk to him directly, truly a man of the people. And unlike Seperatists today, he took his defeat in the referendum like a man and tried to put soverignity on the backburner.

Lesage - Finally broke the Duplesis ******** which made this province the biggest Banana republic in the confederation. Kick started the Quiet Revolution

Trudeau - Inspires Canadian patriots to this day, and is outright hated by his enemies. Regardless, he made many people proud to be Canadian.

When that next great leader comes, we can eliminate seperatism because it is rooted in an old fashioned tribal mentality that just won't survive the new millenium. There are no electoral reforms that can change that - only societal reforms.

[purple_rabbit]

Good point. I've always found it odd that there was only 2 viable parties in Quebec since with the seperation issue you'd think that *more* choices would be good. Like atleast 2 federalist parties and 2 separtist parties to chose from.

Why do you think that the NDP and ADQ have never been able to get traction there?

Tell you truthfully I really don't know why NDP/Conservatives/ADQ have no traction there lol. Actually that's a good question, anyone here has an answer?

[purple_rabbit]

Several. Won't bother listing them all. No electoral reforms will change Quebec for the better (except possibly forcing the corrupt politicians here to redraft the electoral boundaries so that Montreal has a number of seats congruent to its population). As soon as that is done, the PQ will have to tone down its rhetoric in order to be electable.

My province is, socially, more than 20 or 30 years behind the times and needs a big fat kick in the butt. This is not related to the French language or anything like that - rather it is the ideals of the people that live here that read like they are out of a 60s or 70s history book. I am convinced that Quebec is stuck in a period of stagnation until the next great leader comes here and converts us all (kicking and screaming) into a more open and globalized society. This isn't as hard to do as it may sound; Quebec has been gifted with some great leaders in the past.

Lesvesque - Even if you're an anglophone federalist, you can respect him. One could walk into his office and talk to him directly, truly a man of the people. And unlike Seperatists today, he took his defeat in the referendum like a man and tried to put soverignity on the backburner.

Lesage - Finally broke the Duplesis ******** which made this province the biggest Banana republic in the confederation. Kick started the Quiet Revolution

Trudeau - Inspires Canadian patriots to this day, and is outright hated by his enemies. Regardless, he made many people proud to be Canadian.

When that next great leader comes, we can eliminate seperatism because it is rooted in an old fashioned tribal mentality that just won't survive the new millenium. There are no electoral reforms that can change that - only societal reforms.

Agreed, Quebec did come up with one of the greatest politcal leaders Canada knows to this date.

[NG]

Tell you truthfully I really don't know why NDP/Conservatives/ADQ have no traction there lol. Actually that's a good question, anyone here has an answer?

I always assumed the Conservatives never have because regardless of partainship we all still hate Mulrouny and since he was from Quebec it'd be even stronger there.

Does the ADQ operate on the federal level as well (like compete with the BQ) or are they just a prov party (like the PQ)? If they are feds as well I could see that seriously hurting the Conservatives as well since from what I understand the ADQ and Mario DuMond (sp) are right wing parties.

[UncleSteve]

I always assumed the Conservatives never have because regardless of partainship we all still hate Mulrouny and since he was from Quebec it'd be even stronger there.

Actually, the Conservatives lost support in Quebec during the 1917 Conscription Crisis, and never regained it.

[d_jedi]

A liminted form of seperation if you will.

Each Quebecois voter gets two vote for 2 different reps in their Federal riding.

One vote for a rep to represent themselves in Canada as a whole and another vote for a rep (kinda like the BQ now) for a rep to represent their Quebec interests.

The Liberals, NDP, and Cons run their choice in the Canadian rep election.

The BQ, ADQ, and another party run their choice in the Quebec rep election.

Of course this would only work if any party running in Quebec either on the Quebec section or the Canadian section agreed not to advocate seperation.
Absolutely not.

[d_jedi]

Why do you think that the NDP and ADQ have never been able to get traction there?
..
or the Conservatives.

[d_jedi]

I always assumed the Conservatives never have because regardless of partainship we all still hate Mulrouny and since he was from Quebec it'd be even stronger there.
I find it a bit odd (well, maybe not the right word) that - with the exception of Kim Campbell/John Turner (who don't really count, because they were never elected) - we haven't had a non-Quebequer as PM since Joe Clark.. and we haven't had a non-Quebequer PM who actually did anything of consequence since Pearson.

[Lonely Soldier Boy]

ADQ is a provincial party. For a while, they were the most popular one until their leader (Mario Dumont) decided not to make any sort of cohesive plan for the country. He comes off as an amateur.

Still, when he matures a bit more, I could see the ADQ working with the Conservatives.

[Hellfire]

I say let Quebec Separate and take their share of the National Debt with them. And of course, they would still be on the hook for any provincial debt they have incurred. And they should give back the transfer payments, or any funding/aid they got from Ottawa in the year they separate.

They will go bankrupt and come running back to Canada.

[konfusion666]

Do you have a better idea to solve Quebec disconnent within Canada?

That's an unsolvable problem.

NP-complete, perhaps...

[Ferman]

I say let Quebec Separate and take their share of the National Debt with them. And of course, they would still be on the hook for any provincial debt they have incurred. And they should give back the transfer payments, or any funding/aid they got from Ottawa in the year they separate.

They will go bankrupt and come running back to Canada.


And I bet they would become the most indebted nation per captia in the western hemisphere.

But of course, I'm sure they will want their cake and want to eat it too. Maybe they'll want to join the African countries and ask Canada to forgive their debt and start fresh.

[hagbard]

Viva Free and Independent Vancouver Island!!!!

[NG]

I say let Quebec Separate and take their share of the National Debt with them. And of course, they would still be on the hook for any provincial debt they have incurred. And they should give back the transfer payments, or any funding/aid they got from Ottawa in the year they separate.

They will go bankrupt and come running back to Canada.

I've heard people suggest the before too - but here's the problem - whenever even the *whiff* of seperation comes up it hurts our standing in the business sector. I can't imagine what would happen to our dollar, our standing with corps like Moodys, how much of an interest rate we pay on our debt, investment in Canada.

People say if the NDP was ever elected that it'd be economic diaster (which I seriously disagree with but that's another discussion) but I shutter to think what would happen if seperation came to pass. Even another vote on it would be a financial kick in the nuts to Canada.

[NG]

ADQ is a provincial party. For a while, they were the most popular one until their leader (Mario Dumont) decided not to make any sort of cohesive plan for the country. He comes off as an amateur.

Still, when he matures a bit more, I could see the ADQ working with the Conservatives.

Ah ok - that makes sense then but don't you (although I'd say prov since I'm a federalist lol).

Well then since they aren't federal I wonder why the Conservatives haven't done better in Quebec....unless Quebec doesn't have right wing voters :confused:

[NG]

Actually, the Conservatives lost support in Quebec during the 1917 Conscription Crisis, and never regained it.

Well now - what's this. Looks like I'll have to do some research on this. I've never herad of this before.

If Quebec has held this dislike of them for so long (wow close to century) I don't know if the Conservatives could ever get seats there.

[UncleSteve]

Well now - what's this. Looks like I'll have to do some research on this. I've never herad of this before.

If Quebec has held this dislike of them for so long (wow close to century) I don't know if the Conservatives could ever get seats there.

Yup. Just google on "conscription 1917 canada" and follow some of the links. I must admit, I only did a very quick search. Conscription was very divisive, with English Canada seeing it as helping the Motherland, while French Canada (led primarily by Henri Bourassa) seeing WWI as Europe's problem, not Canada's.

[d_jedi]

Yup. Just google on "conscription 1917 canada" and follow some of the links. I must admit, I only did a very quick search. Conscription was very divisive, with English Canada seeing it as helping the Motherland, while French Canada (led primarily by Henri Bourassa) seeing WWI as Europe's problem, not Canada's.
Almost like how France thought Saddam Hussein was Iraq's problem?
:D

Then again, the French aren't known for their military successes..
http://img241.echo.cx/img241/5543/french3vd.jpg
:D :D :D

[asim99]

Then again, the French aren't known for their military successes.. :D :D :D

Steve Lerner has a fan in d_jedi

http://www.google-watch.org/newsday.html

The French always end up as military toast, or so it seems from a search on the popular Google search engine. But a miffed Canadian student is actually behind a prank that says no documents are found in a Google search for "French military victories."

The search brings up a page that asks: "Did you mean 'french military defeats.'"

The French did win some wars. In fact, Google lists about 63,100 pages of French military victories.

But a Web page says no documents are found when searching for "French military victories" using Google's "I'm Feeling Lucky" button, which bypasses the list of search results and jumps directly to the first Web page in the list.

That happens to be a mock-up page of Google, suggesting a search for "french military defeats." The large Google logo at the top tends to distract Web surfers from the address in the Web browser: www.albinoblacksheep.com/text/victories.html.

Steve Lerner, a 22-year-old Toronto student, said he created the page as "a humorous way of showing political opposition against France's weaseling."

http://www.google.ca/search?biw=779&hl=en&q=french+military+victories&btnG=Google+Search&meta=

[d_jedi]

Steve Lerner has a fan in d_jedi

http://www.google-watch.org/newsday.html



http://www.google.ca/search?biw=779&hl=en&q=french+military+victories&btnG=Google+Search&meta=
Yes, that's exactly how I got to that page.. it was a joke.

Of course.. if you ask me to name any wars the French won.. I'd be hard pressed to give you an answer

[gordholio]

Thank you for stating your opinion in such a polite fashion.

Do you have a better idea to solve Quebec disconnent within Canada?
If they don't like it the way it is, then they should leave. We cow tow to Quebec enough as it is - official bilingualism.