"Dancing on Terri Schiavo's grave"

[Txiasaeia]

Toronto-- The right-to-life versus dying-with-dignity battle over Terri Schindler Schiavo exploded back into life on Monday, bursting back to life from the unlikely scene of a cemetery.

"At the burial site of Terri Schiavo's cremated remains, Michael Schiavo used a bronze grave marker to list Feb. 25, 1990 as the date his wife died," laments Rev. Patrick J. Mahoney, director of the Washington-based Christian Democracy Coalition (CDC). "Feb. 25, 1990 is the date Terri Schindler Schiavo experienced a still unknown event that left her severely mentally disabled. Terri Schiavo actually died March 31, 2005, nearly two weeks after her feeding tube was removed by court order."

In a story that laid human emotion raw, and where truth often became the first victim of battles waged from both sides, the reverend at least got his facts straight.

Members of the CDC, which led prayer vigils and demonstration in support of Terri Schiavo, say his actions of late reveal the "real Michael Schiavo" and "dispel any myth that he was a loving and caring husband to Terri" for the past 15 years.

"The actions of Michael Schiavo are a slap in the face to all disabled Americans," Rev. Mahoney says.

Marking Terri's grave with the decade old date of death rather than the real one, he says, also answers the most asked question of the entire Terri Schiavo controversy: "That is, why didn't Michael let the Schindlers take care of their daughter? He could not do that because he believed she was already dead."

Rev. Mahoney is asking how could Michael Schiavo look out for his wife's interests for 15 years as her caretaker, when he felt she was already dead?

Michael Schiavo seemed to drop off the radar screen after Terri's March 31, death, and the whereabouts of Terri's remains were a matter of speculation.

Michael, who had originally maintained that Terri's remains would be buried at a family plot in Pennsylvania, buried them instead in Clearwater, Florida.

His attorney, the death-is-beautiful George Felos, apparently faxed the Schindlers the information after the deed was done.

Terri's cremated ashes were buried within days of the release of John T. Thogmartin's official autopsy of Theresa Marie ("Terri") Schiavo, Medical Examiner Case No. 5050439, which some in the medical community claim leaves more questions than answers.

One of those questioning the results of the Thogmartin autopsy is Stephen J. Nelson, M.D., Chief Medical Examiner, 10th Judicial Circuit of Florida, one of the forensic pathologists from Thogmartin's office, who participated in the autopsy.

In a June 8, 2005 letter to Thogmartin, Nelson concludes: Neuropathologic examination of the decedent's brain - or any brain, for that matter - cannot prove or disprove a diagnosis of persistent vegetative state or minimally conscious state."

By backdating Terri's death, Michael Schiavo is, in effect, dancing on his wife's grave. But this may not be what it appears to be on the surface, a last parting shot at one-upmanship against his one-time in-laws.

For Michael and his attorney, it may be a beginning rather than an end; the beginning of the revival of publicity for the dying-with-dignity crusade, led by Attorney George Felos.

Like Michael's grave marker, time will tell.

http://www.canadafreepress.com/2005/cover062205.htm

[hagbard]

http://www.creativecyberspace.com/greetingcards/thumbs/skeletondance.gif

[asim99]

mahoney et al did their best to do character assassination of michael schiavo...and even now they won't give up

[d_jedi]

Michael Schiavo had the opportunity to be the better man. He wasted that opportunity.

Every time Terri's parents visit her grave, it will be a slap in the face.

[JAC]

Michael Schiavo had the opportunity to be the better man. He wasted that opportunity.
Every time Terri's parents visit her grave, it will be a slap in the face.

After insisting the corpse be kept alive for 15 years, I think they deserve it.

[GreenWeenie]

Actual tombstone inscription

Schiavo
Theresa Marie
Beloved Wife
Born December 3, 1963
Departed this Earth
Febuary 25, 1990
At Peace March 31, 2005

I kept my promise

http://images.ibsys.com/2005/0621/4634213.jpg

[UrbanPoet]

how did she become a vegtable?

[pandaharo]

I remember vaguely there is a form you can fill out in Canada something like "right to refuse medical intervention" or something. Bascially it gives you the right to not be kept alive by machines when you are mentally dead. Anyone know exactly what this form is called?

[Txiasaeia]

mahoney et al did their best to do character assassination of michael schiavo...and even now they won't give up

He said he'd bury her remains in a family plot in Penn, but changed his mind and buried them in Clearwater, Florida. Her parents didn't know until it was done. I'm sorry, but I think that Michael is doing a great job looking insensitive without the media helping.

[asim99]

Actual tombstone inscription

Schiavo
Theresa marie
Beloved Wife
Born Dec xx, xxxx
Departed this Earth Febuary xx, xxxx
At Peace March xx, xxxx

I kept my promise

if this is really true, then Txiasaeia's source is simply too biased, and he should've mentioned the bias

Txiasaeia needs to change the topic to something better

[GreenWeenie]

if this is really true, then Txiasaeia's source is simply too biased, and he should've mentioned the biasI added the actual photo above. Spin doctors working overtime. I like how they now call her "Terri Schindler Schiavo" as another "dig" at her husband.

[Txiasaeia]

if this is really true, then Txiasaeia's source is simply too biased, and he should've mentioned the bias

http://www.wftv.com/news/4634214/detail.html

Good grief. The article says "In a story that laid human emotion raw, and where truth often became the first victim of battles waged from both sides, the reverend at least got his facts straight." Too bad the *reporter* couldn't have got the truth right.

On the other hand, did he really need to include both dates? Doesn't anybody else see this as insulting to her family?

[Txiasaeia]

Txiasaeia needs to change the topic to something better

The topic title is the news article's title. I really don't see why I need to change it.

[asim99]

On the other hand, did he really need to include both dates? Doesn't anybody else see this as insulting to her family?

i am sure he didn't need to...but after all the insult he suffered at the hand of schindlers, he may have wanted to get the final word, and i don't blame him for that

[GreenWeenie]

On the other hand, did he really need to include both dates? Doesn't anybody else see this as insulting to her family?Actually give the husband credit.

Both dates are very significant. He feels that she died in 1990. He knows her parents feel she died in 2005. He puts both dates on, and very diplomatically refers to neither as the date she "died". Kudos ...

[asim99]

The topic title is the news article's title. I really don't see why I need to change it.

fair enough...i'll keep that in mind when i set topics to my threads :D

btw, 'newsreport' is way too respectable a word for that piece of biased opinion

[Txiasaeia]

i am sure he didn't need to...but after all the insult he suffered at the hand of schindlers, he may have wanted to get the final word, and i don't blame him for that

So it was based on spite. That's a wonderful principle to have on mind when designing your wife's tombstone.

[asim99]

So it was based on spite. That's a wonderful principle to have on mind when designing your wife's tombstone.

that's just what i think...i may be wrong

[GreenWeenie]

So it was based on spite. That's a wonderful principle to have on mind when designing your wife's tombstone.I think there are other explanations that are more plausable, such as the one I offered above.

Consider as well, he wanted her buried in PA (??), but her parents wanted her body in Florida, close to where they live. The husband relented and buried her in Clearwater Florida... near to her parents I believe.

[Txiasaeia]

Actually give the husband credit.

Both dates are very significant. He feels that she died in 1990. He knows her parents feel she died in 2005. He puts both dates on, and very diplomatically refers to neither as the date she "died". Kudos ...

So she "left the earth" in 1990, but was "at peace" in 2005. Where was she for fifteen years? Diplomatic, I agree, but somewhat confusing.

Aside from this theolgical question, if he couldn't respect her parents by burying her where he originally promised he would, how can we interpret the inscription on the tombstone as a sign of respect?

[Txiasaeia]

I think there are other explanations that are more plausable. Consider as well, he wanted her buried in Penn(??), but her parents wanted her body in Florida, close to where they live. The husband relented and buried her in Clearwater Florida... near to her parents I believe.

Pennsylvania. Doesn't matter where he buries her in Florida, it's still over a thousand miles away.

[GreenWeenie]

So she "left the earth" in 1990, but was "at peace" in 2005. Where was she for fifteen years? Diplomatic, I agree, but somewhat confusing.Good luck coming up with something that clarifies two diametrically opposed views that will fit on a tombstone.

[GreenWeenie]

Pennsylvania. Doesn't matter where he buries her in Florida, it's still over a thousand miles away.No, the Schindlers wanted her buried in Florida... her husband relented on his desire to bury her in PA (I think) and she is buried in Clearwater.

No credit for that act though...

One quote (http://sptimes.com/2005/03/08/Tampabay/Parents_want_Schiavo_.shtml) regarding the judicial decisions that proves above:
Refused to block plans by Michael Schiavo to have his wife cremated and her ashes buried in her native Pennsylvania. The Schindlers want her buried in Florida and oppose cremation.

[hyperion]

Another fine example of media bias....they're grrrrrrrrrrreat.

[chickenbones]

So it was based on spite. That's a wonderful principle to have on mind when designing your wife's tombstone.

Well, I think the parents based more things on spite then the husband. Denying the medical report and the fact that she was blind.

They will never get any closure if they continue to dismiss logical objective evidence.

[Txiasaeia]

No, the Schindlers wanted her buried in Florida... her husband relented on his desire to bury her in PA (I think) and she is buried in Clearwater.

No credit for that act though...

Well, if you're sure about that, then so be it.

After checking a few other sources, I'm pretty choked with this one. I'm extremely disappointed in the journo who wrote this article. If the only controversy was the fact that there was two dates on the tombstone, then I'm not sure what the entire purpose of the article was, other than to raise ire.

[JAC]

So she "left the earth" in 1990, but was "at peace" in 2005. Where was she for fifteen years? Diplomatic, I agree, but somewhat confusing.
Isn't that covered by church dogma? I was hoping you would be able to expound on the morality of a) keeping a soul imprisoned in a useless shell for 15 years, or b) the morality of animating a lifeless corpse for 15 years after the soul has departed. Which is it, Txiasaeia?

Aside from this theolgical question, if he couldn't respect her parents by burying her where he originally promised he would, how can we interpret the inscription on the tombstone as a sign of respect?
Since they showed him absolutely no respect whatsoever, including trying to paint him as an abuser, why should he be obligated to take the moral high ground?

[hagbard]

The topic title is the news article's title. I really don't see why I need to change it.

Nice try with the first article you posted at manipulation. Good job with the guy who posted an actual picture, which as they say, spoke a thousand words.

[GreenWeenie]

Well, if you're sure about that, then so be it.See my above edited post for the quotes on the burial site issue. You know my posts are usually solid and well supported.

After checking a few other sources, I'm pretty choked with this one. I'm extremely disappointed in the journo who wrote this article. If the only controversy was the fact that there was two dates on the tombstone, then I'm not sure what the entire purpose of the article was, other than to raise ire. I think you've hit it on the head. Spin doctors looking to forward their agenda.

[GreenWeenie]

Nice try with the first article you posted at manipulation. Good job with the guy who posted an actual picture, which as they say, spoke a thousand words.*bow* ty ... once again shining the harsh light of truth onto the picture :razz:

[Txiasaeia]

Isn't that covered by church dogma? I was hoping you would be able to expound on the morality of a) keeping a soul imprisoned in a useless shell for 15 years, or b) the morality of animating a lifeless corpse for 15 years after the soul has departed. Which is it, Txiasaeia?

Without any direct passages on euthanasia in either the Hebrew Scriptures or New Testament, all we have to go on is what God wants in any given situation. Neither you nor I are close enough to the situation to know what God would want. I'm a Protestant, so I don't have any written extra-Biblical codes that I need to follow in specific situations.

Since they showed him absolutely no respect whatsoever, including trying to paint him as an abuser, why should he be obligated to take the moral high ground?

It looks like he *did* take the high ground (re: choice of burial). I stand corrected on that point.

[Txiasaeia]

Nice try with the first article you posted at manipulation. Good job with the guy who posted an actual picture, which as they say, spoke a thousand words.

I actually posted a link to the tombstone at the exact same time as GreenWeenie did. My intention was not to manipulate, which can be easily seen by my comments throughout this thread.

[danfromwaterloo]

Yeah, if you guys want to talk about dancing on Terri's grave, I think we can all say that she never ever wanted THIS level of publicity over herself. Frankly though, I blame the parents for this ordeal. Granted, I think Michael Shiavo has been a real dick the whole time, but his heart was in the right place.

I got the sense that all the parents cared about was that they still had their little girl to go and visit, like they never really got the fact that she wasn't in there anymore, regardless of what the doctors said. It was sad, but they kept her alive for their own wellbeing - kinda like a person who refuses to put down a sick pet when it's suffering.

For those 15 years, she was in purgatory, stuck in that netherworld between life and heaven...and for that, I think that Michael hit it right on the head with that tombstone.

Severely disabled my ass. That poor woman was dead for 15 years.

[JAC]

Without any direct passages on euthanasia in either the Hebrew Scriptures or New Testament, all we have to go on is what God wants in any given situation. Neither you nor I are close enough to the situation to know what God would want. I'm a Protestant, so I don't have any written extra-Biblical codes that I need to follow in specific situations.
Rather vague. Will he telephone, or maybe just send an email?

You didn't address the issue of the soul. Does dogma dictate that the soul departs on death of body, or death of consciousness?

[danfromwaterloo]

Without any direct passages on euthanasia in either the Hebrew Scriptures or New Testament, all we have to go on is what God wants in any given situation. Neither you nor I are close enough to the situation to know what God would want. I'm a Protestant, so I don't have any written extra-Biblical codes that I need to follow in specific situations.


Right, but in what form should the hand of God operate? A lightning bolt from the sky, or the hand of the doctor as he removes the feeding tube for the last time? I think His will was done.

[Txiasaeia]

Rather vague. Will he telephone, or maybe just send an email?

Har, har. It's a bit difficult to explain how God works to somebody who obviously doesn't believe in him.

You didn't address the issue of the soul. Does dogma dictate that the soul departs on death of body, or death of consciousness?

Again, I don't follow any such "dogma." Believe it or not, most Protestants are free to believe what they choose to believe on matters that are not directly addressed in the Bible.

[Txiasaeia]

Right, but in what form should the hand of God operate? A lightning bolt from the sky, or the hand of the doctor as he removes the feeding tube for the last time? I think His will was done.

I wasn't involved in the situation, so I have absolutely no idea how God was working. In what form *should* God operate? In any way he deems appropriate.

[danfromwaterloo]

I wasn't involved in the situation, so I have absolutely no idea how God was working. In what form *should* God operate? In any way he deems appropriate.

Absolutely. His Will be done. The only problem is that people on both sides of this debate were arguing over whether His Will was Their Will.

[v00d00]

Screw Terri Schiavo, her parents and her husband.. it's all a issue meant for their private lives and not of our concern.

I had hoped to finally stop hearing about it when she (thank god) finally died.. but Noooooooo.. more people need to keep talking about it.

[JAC]

Har, har. It's a bit difficult to explain how God works to somebody who obviously doesn't believe in him.
Then how would you ever convert any non-believers? Aren't you, as a good christian, always supposed to spread his word? Come on, explain the soul to me.

Again, I don't follow any such "dogma." Believe it or not, most Protestants are free to believe what they choose to believe on matters that are not directly addressed in the Bible.
http://www.abpnews.com/news/news_detail.cfm?NEWS_ID=601

Apparently not all of your Baptist cousins feel the same.

[Txiasaeia]

Screw Terri Schiavo, her parents and her husband.. it's all a issue meant for their private lives and not of our concern.

I had hoped to finally stop hearing about it when she (thank god) finally died.. but Noooooooo.. more people need to keep talking about it.

If you're so sick of the topic, why are you posting?

[hagbard]

Without any direct passages on euthanasia in either the Hebrew Scriptures or New Testament, all we have to go on is what God wants in any given situation. Neither you nor I are close enough to the situation to know what God would want. I'm a Protestant, so I don't have any written extra-Biblical codes that I need to follow in specific situations.



It looks like he *did* take the high ground (re: choice of burial). I stand corrected on that point.

"God" obviously wants us to live in the dark. Ignore him.

[Fuggit]

Ok, I haven't been following this story. Who are the Schiavos and why are they so special?!

[asim99]

Ignore him.
is god male?

[GreenWeenie]

Ok, I haven't been following this story. Who are the Schiavos and why are they so special?!http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terri_Schiavo

[v00d00]

is god male?
is there a god?

[Txiasaeia]

Then how would you ever convert any non-believers? Aren't you, as a good christian, always supposed to spread his word? Come on, explain the soul to me.

Why would I waste my time trying to talk to somebody about God who only wants to mock and ridicule me? You're going to take anything I say and twist it around in order to try to make me look stupid.

If you're really interested to know, check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soul.

Apparently not all of your Baptist cousins feel the same.

I understand that you're upset with me because of what happened in the other thread. The judge did something that his church didn't agree with, and resigned his membership in that specific church over it. There's nothing more to read into the situation. I'm not sure what you're trying to get me to say; I guess I don't know my lines.

[hagbard]

is god male?

Obvioulsy.

[JAC]

Why would I waste my time trying to talk to somebody about God who only wants to mock and ridicule me? You're going to take anything I say and twist it around in order to try to make me look stupid.
If your beliefs won't stand up to scrutiny, then why expound them?

I understand that you're upset with me because of what happened in the other thread.
I'm upset with the current climate of RFD; I'm merely amused with you.

The judge did something that his church didn't agree with, and resigned his membership in that specific church over it.
As I recall, he was asked to resign.

There's nothing more to read into the situation. I'm not sure what you're trying to get me to say; I guess I don't know my lines.
I'm just looking for some consistent explanations to my questions.

[d_jedi]

Actual tombstone inscription

Schiavo
Theresa Marie
Beloved Wife
Born December 3, 1963
Departed this Earth
Febuary 25, 1990
At Peace March 31, 2005

I kept my promise
That changes things.

[asim99]

I'm upset with the current climate of RFD

what's wrong with the current climate?

[GreenWeenie]

As I recall, he was asked to resign.From the article you linked to above.
The Florida judge who ordered Terri Schiavo's feeding tube removed has resigned his membership in a prominent Southern Baptist church.

According to media reports, Pinellas-Pasco Circuit Judge George Greer informed Calvary Baptist Church in Clearwater that he was officially resigning his membership after receiving a March 10 letter from the church's pastor, Willy Rice.

According to the St. Petersburg Times, Rice wrote that, although he was "not asking [Greer] to do this," that resigning his membership nonetheless "would seem the logical and, I would say, biblical course" given Greer's inactive status in the congregation and his publicly stated disagreements with church decisions.

[hagbard]

what's wrong with the current climate?

People are becoming too sensitive. Must be the water.

[JAC]

From the article you linked to above.

Yes? The subtext of the pastor's letter seems quite clear to me.

"I'm not going to ask you officially to leave, but it'd be in your best interest to leave."

According to media reports, Pinellas-Pasco Circuit Judge George Greer informed Calvary Baptist Church in Clearwater that he was officially resigning his membership after receiving a March 10 letter from the church's pastor, Willy Rice.

According to the St. Petersburg Times, Rice wrote that, although he was "not asking [Greer] to do this," that resigning his membership nonetheless "would seem the logical and, I would say, biblical course" given Greer's inactive status in the congregation and his publicly stated disagreements with church decisions.

[JAC]

what's wrong with the current climate?
It's just a little too repressive right now. We have admins sending warning letters for poking fun at someone's screen name. Not even their real name, mind you, but a pseudonym created for the purpose of posting anonymously.

Now, where are my jackboots?

[GreenWeenie]

Yes? The subtext of the pastor's letter seems quite clear to me.

"I'm not going to ask you officially to leave, but it'd be in your best interest to leave."Mine was stictly a factual post without opinion one way or the other. Your comment had some doubt ("As I recall, he was asked to resign"). I provided the text of what was reported in the post you quoted.

[JAC]

Mine was stictly a factual post without opinion one way or the other. Your comment had some doubt ("As I recall, he was asked to resign"). I provided the text of what was reported in the post you quoted.
Ah, thank you for the clarification.:)

[GreenWeenie]

It's just a little too repressive right now. We have admins sending warning letters for poking fun at someone's screen name. Not even their real name, mind you, but a pseudonym created for the purpose of posting anonymously.Given the clear flamebait motives that would appear to have been Duckdown's point in the other thread, I think it's good that he'll have a few days to think about it.

Making fun of a screen name for the purpose of disparaging the person behind it is childish.

[JAC]

Given the clear flamebait motives that would appear to have been Duckdown's point in the other thread, I think it's good that he'll have a few days to think about it.
Duckdown is a troll.

Making fun of a screen name for the purpose of disparaging the person behind it is childish.
See, now I'm going to have to report you to the mods for insulting me.

[asim99]

Duckdown is a troll.

i reported duckdown's post, Txiasaeia

[Txiasaeia]

If your beliefs won't stand up to scrutiny, then why expound them?

Because it doesn't matter how rational you or I are, there are always going to be people who twist and convolute what I say. It's much easier to explain in a one-on-one situation than on any online forum.

If you read the Bible, I'm pretty sure that most of my beliefs will be in there ;)

As I recall, he was asked to resign.

According to the St. Petersburg Times, Rice wrote that, although he was "not asking [Greer] to do this," that resigning his membership nonetheless "would seem the logical and, I would say, biblical course" given Greer's inactive status in the congregation and his publicly stated disagreements with church decisions.

[JAC]

Because it doesn't matter how rational you or I are, there are always going to be people who twist and convolute what I say. It's much easier to explain in a one-on-one situation than on any online forum.
As you wish. But you can't expect to express opinions that are founded on religious beliefs and not have people call them into question. And here I thought the word of god was absolute...;)

[Txiasaeia]

i reported duckdown's post, Txiasaeia

Heh... dunno if you're going to like the news, asim, but if it weren't for the above quoted post, I would have put RFD behind me (after reading duckdown's thread). I sincerely thank you for your concern.

Since I didn't get a chance to explain my nick in the other thread, for obvious reasons, and since there's obviously interest, I'll do so here, briefly: Txiasaeia comes from two Galician words: Xiada (morning rain) and Saeia (a type of dance). So, in effect, "rain-dancing." However, "rain-dancing" isn't nearly as unique, and doesn't look as interesting. It's pronounced "[t]sia-say-EEE-ah." I don't think there's an equitable sound in English to try to explain the "tx," so think of it as a really harsh "S" with a bit of a buzz at the beginning.

[Txiasaeia]

As you wish. But you can't expect to express opinions that are founded on religious beliefs and not have people call them into question. And here I thought the word of god was absolute...;)

What do you mean by "word of God"? Do you mean the Bible, or the words coming out of God's anthropomorphised mouth? Some people believe that the Bible is literally true, others metaphorically, and still others that it's "junk" (to quote another poster). In other words, it all depends ;)

[JAC]

What do you mean by "word of God"? Do you mean the Bible, or the words coming out of God's anthropomorphised mouth? Some people believe that the Bible is literally true, others metaphorically, and still others that it's "junk" (to quote another poster). In other words, it all depends ;)
Nice deflection. I thought it philosophy, not theology, that was supposed to answer a question with more questions.:P

Ok, so even if the bible is the "Word of God Lite", it should still provide enough material to stand up to critcism from us heathens. Otherwise, why bother with it at all?

[Txiasaeia]

Ok, so even if the bible is the "Word of God Lite", it should still provide enough material to stand up to critcism from us heathens. Otherwise, why bother with it at all?

Okay, sounds good. What do you have a problem with?

EDIT: Specifically, what passage or concept in the Bible itself.

[GreenWeenie]

Making fun of a screen name for the purpose of disparaging the person behind it is childish. See, now I'm going to have to report you to the mods for insulting me.* Y E S * I could use a three day vacation! Though, it's tough to complain when I'm lying in a hammock enjoying a beautiful 30 degree day!

Wireless networks and notebooks ... oh ya!!

Time for another beer before I cool off in the pool ;)

[danfromwaterloo]

Nice deflection. I thought it philosophy, not theology, that was supposed to answer a question with more questions.:P

Ok, so even if the bible is the "Word of God Lite", it should still provide enough material to stand up to critcism from us heathens. Otherwise, why bother with it at all?

Does anybody else find irony in the current climate of religious intolerance (and by intolerance, I mean, intolerant of religion in general)...

First, anybody who was against your religion was an "enemy"
Now, its anybody who believes in anything whatsoever is an "enemy".

I'll be the first person to agree that religious zealots are trying to take over the free world and bend the rules to fit their beliefs, but for God's sake everybody, not everybody who believes in something is a zealot.

JAC: Just because you don't believe in God doesn't mean that He doesn't exist. Similarly, it doesn't make people who believe "foolish". I find faith a very personal and intimate element of my being; and it takes courage to believe in something without any substantial proof whatsoever.

Tixxy (I like that short form, no offense): Stop trying to make people believe. There will be those who will believe in God, and there are those who won't. Those who won't will likely never. Those who will, will always. Trying to debate religion with a non-believer is akin to bashing down a brick wall with your forehead: in the end, the wall will still be there, and all you'll have is a headache.

Those of us who have been around on this board for a long time know who believes and who doesn't. Do we really need to go through the argument every week? Seriously, call a truce and be done with it. JAC will never believe in God (until he experiences Him). Tixxy will always believe (until he finds out He doesn't exist). Since both "until" clauses are likely never to happen, just LET IT GO. Co-exist.

[Txiasaeia]

Stop trying to make people believe. There will be those who will believe in God, and there are those who won't. Those who won't will likely never. Those who will, will always. Trying to debate religion with a non-believer is akin to bashing down a brick wall with your forehead: in the end, the wall will still be there, and all you'll have is a headache.

I can't help myself; I love a good debate. If somebody honestly wants to debate Christianity, I'm in. There's a difference between trying to convert somebody online and debating religion: I'm trying to do the second, not the first. Not that it isn't possible, but I just can't see myself trying to convert somebody online. So don't worry: I'm not evangelising, just talking. If somebody asks a question, I (usually) don't see any harm in answering.

[v00d00]

I have a question.. why doesn't the bible mention anything about dinosaurs?

[JAC]

Those of us who have been around on this board for a long time know who believes and who doesn't. Do we really need to go through the argument every week? Seriously, call a truce and be done with it. JAC will never believe in God (until he experiences Him). Tixxy will always believe (until he finds out He doesn't exist). Since both "until" clauses are likely never to happen, just LET IT GO. Co-exist.
A noble sentiment, but unfortunately religious beliefs pervade issues which should be dealt with in a strictly political light.

Besides, what would we talk about without our weekly pissing contests? :twisted:

[JAC]

Okay, sounds good. What do you have a problem with?
Does the soul pass on to the afterlife at the moment of brain death, or body death?

EDIT: Specifically, what passage or concept in the Bible itself.
Damn, nice save. Well, there is the entire old testament...

[guest10586]

:-0
:lol:

[GreenWeenie]

... I'm outta this thread. No interest in the direction this thread is going.

And ... well put Dannyboy! :)

[ichpen]

I have a question.. why doesn't the bible mention anything about dinosaurs?

:lol:

Good point actually....

[pgcanred]

I have a question.. why doesn't the bible mention anything about dinosaurs?
The Bible mentions at least two creatures that may be dinosaurs. In the old King James Version they were translated as a Leviathan and Behemoth (probably transliterated but I do not know Hebrew well enough to say).

[v00d00]

The Bible mentions at least two creatures that may be dinosaurs. In the old King James Version they were translated as a Leviathan and Behemoth (probably transliterated but I do not know Hebrew well enough to say).
Out of curiousity I did a search on dictionary.com..

Leviathan: A monstrous sea creature mentioned in the Bible
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=leviathan

Behemoth: A huge animal, possibly the hippopotamus, described in the Bible.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=behemoth

Large creatures... though apparently not on scale of the dinosaurs.

[biosh]

Christians explain dinosaurs... (http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/dinos.shtml)

;)

[pgcanred]

Large creatures... though apparently not on scale of the dinosaurs.
I don't know if you have enough evidence to draw that conclusion. The textual evidence is simply insufficienty to draw any firm conclusion. I don't thin a hippopotamus is plausible as the Biblical text says "His tail sways like a cedar".

Are dinosaurs mentioned in the Bible? (http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-c004.html)

[v00d00]

I don't know if you have enough evidence to draw that conclusion. The textual evidence is simply insufficienty to draw any firm conclusion. I don't thin a hippopotamus is plausible as the Biblical text says "His tail sways like a cedar".

Are dinosaurs mentioned in the Bible? (http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-c004.html)
So his tail sways slowly.. like a cedar. A cedar tree sways slowly back and forth in the wind.. so as does this large animal's (elephant, hippo..whatever) tail.

It's all into interpretation.. I love how elaborate the compilations are of those "Answers" sites.. quite elaborately put together like the bible itself.

[pgcanred]

So his tail sways slowly.. like a cedar. A cedar tree sways slowly back and forth in the wind.. so as does this large animal's (elephant, hippo..whatever) tail.

It's all into interpretation.. I love how elaborate the compilations are of those "Answers" sites.. quite elaborately put together like the bible itself.
But you would hardly wax eloquently about the tail of a hippo.

[gordholio]

Putting the wrong date of death is really an unfortunate thing to have been done.
Just as an aside, her date of birth is December 3, 1963 - mine's just 3 days later than her DOB (same year).

[Webslinger]

Co-exist.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y253/ZoraidaLu1/coexist.jpg