Engineering at McMaster or UofT??

[beatbox]

ok i statred a thread back in april http://forums.redflagdeals.com/showthread.php?t=154729

and iv read through it like twice already and iv narrowed it done to UofT and Mcmaster (for Computer Engineering)

Final accepatance deadline is June 13 so i thought ill make one last thread on this and make the right decission with your help

university campus are good and stuff but UofT is so much bigger
and in the last thread someone mentioned that UofT is a deathtrap and youll have no life but your degree is more valuble and internationally known and on the other hand Mac students say its pretty good and its rep is good as well but not at par with UofT


thanks

[KevC]

Haha. I don't know why, but it's a trend at UofT to scare people away. It makes us feel... better? I don't know.

But let me tell you this, it's hard yes. But definitely not *impossible*. If you love what you do, (ECE mostly do) then you'll have a blast.

At both schools.

Since I'm at UofT, and I know a lot of ECE and nSci people, I'd recommend us. It's an internationally known school, the PEY program is awesome, and you'll make tonnes of friends. No, it's not a deathtrap. No, it's not impossible. And yes, you will have a life. An awesome one if I may add. Kids in engineering here are the brightest yet most fun people I know. They love to party, and they definitely party hard.

Mac is also a good school, don't get me wrong. But it's tucked away in Hamilton, vs UofT that's nested in Downtown Toronto. Tonnes of things to do here, not nearly as much as in Hamilton.

Whichever you pick, you've made a good choice.

Good luck!

[beatbox]

honestly id like to go to UofT but they way people described me UofT is

"You get the same degree have the same qualifications but UofT just might have a little more edge but at UofT you will be working 2x as much as compared to Mac"

i dont know if that statement is true or not but
im not ready to work that hard as im struggleing in Grade 12 to keep a B-/B average. Also Mac fees are so much more expensive and they wont help me out as much as UofT (bursuries)

UofT is willing to pay all the diffrence from what OSAP gives me but Mac will pay like 1500 MAX to cover me

[weedb0y]

go UfT if you can do it! Its easier at Mac

[weedb0y]

btw, I don't know about you but Uft does jack about deregulated fees..just here and there for bursaries..its not guranteed everytime..

[skeletor]

If you want to die go to U of T, if you want an ass kicking go to Mac..

either way, prepare for hell.... just know what you are getting into.. in the end both universities lead you to the same place. With a B average, U of T won't let you in ECE.. I had 88% and they wouldn't take me many years ago.... I'm glad they didn't because I wouldn't be where I am today if I hadn't gone to Mac and done very well in my final years..

[simms]

Haha, If you haven't read enough I'm in Engineering at UT.

You definetely pick up a lot of skills. There are a lot of chances to get out, party, relax. But the work is hard, and it's long hours. You have to learn to adapt to study habits and the courseload.

I got a 6K scolarship for Mac and I still chose UT. It just depends on the atmosphere you want. Skule(TM) is pretty energetic, we have the Lady Godiva Memorial Band, Godiva Week, Frosh Week, about a zillion other clubs, EngSoc and more to offer.

Thing is though, Mac usually has more keggers, more random stuff like that I guess. But the networking skills and the opportunity are second to none (and beats UW, although I think UW has an overall better eng program).


"You get the same degree have the same qualifications but UofT just might have a little more edge but at UofT you will be working 2x as much as compared to Mac"

Well, probably not 2x as much, but I would say moreso. If you're already lacking in the marks department, I'd probably go for Mac. If you really really have aspirations to graduate from UT, then go there. Otherwise if you want the degree, Mac isn't a bad alternative.

[emptypocket]

One thing that you have to keep in mind is that Mac has a common first year stream while at U of T you get into the department you want to right away. So if you are all for Elec for example, you might not get into that program in second year at Mac unless your marks are high enough or you were offered "Free Choice" with your admission letter. With U of T you don't have to worry about that.

On the other hand if you're not sure which discipline you want to go into Mac might be the better choice, since first year will expose you to all the different disciplines to see which flavour you like. You might be surprised that at the end of your first year to see that you may no longer want the program you wanted.

[h_f_p_3]

I got into the same uni's you did and I chose UofT for ECE (it was an alternative placement, 1st choice was MechEng). My grades aren't the greatest either, I had a flat 80 avg at midterm and I'm doing pretty bad in physics right now but I'm still gonna pursue it.

I know its going to be hell when I get there, but if I can get through it, I'm sure it'll be worth it. I'm also planning on living on res (1st choice was New College) for 1st year just to get to know the people I'll be studying with for the next 4 years.

I think it was UofT's reputation coupled with the shock of getting into their ECE program that made me choose them for uni. Their acceptance letter caught me completely off guard and I was positive I wouldn't get in. After getting accepted there (along with Waterloo), I decided to take up the challenge and go for Engineering. Hopefully, if I really study hard, it won't be that bad and maybe I'll even have some fun in the process. Whichever university you choose, you can't go wrong, both universities have great reputations and I'm sure you'll be just fine in either one :D

[Whitewind]

If you want to die go to U of T, if you want an ass kicking go to Mac..

either way, prepare for hell.... just know what you are getting into.. in the end both universities lead you to the same place. With a B average, U of T won't let you in ECE.. I had 88% and they wouldn't take me many years ago.... I'm glad they didn't because I wouldn't be where I am today if I hadn't gone to Mac and done very well in my final years..

haha you would be suprised at the average of this generation of students (me being one of them), heard some guy got into waterloo for CompSci with 79

[h_f_p_3]

haha you would be suprised at the average of this generation of students (me being one of them), heard some guy got into waterloo for CompSci with 79

I was surprised I got into Waterloo (Geological Engineering) with my flat 80. I was even more surprised when I got their admission package and it said I need to maintain a 70% avg to retain my placement. Maybe they're really hurting for new undergrads? :confused:

[StrayB]

I was surprised I got into Waterloo (Geological Engineering) with my flat 80. I was even more surprised when I got their admission package and it said I need to maintain a 70% avg to retain my placement. Maybe they're really hurting for new undergrads? :confused:

When I applied to Waterloo for Software Eng, with a 93% OAC average, I got shot down. Friggin' bums. I had to settle with ECE at UofT.

[beatbox]

skeletor i did get into UofT

but in there letter they never stated what average i should maintain
for Mac they said to maintain 75% avg

and emptypocket i wasnt given free choice so i guess i ll have to do well in order for me to get into the stream i selected but then agoin i dont want to take that risk....


agghh so much issues just to pick a university :eek: :!:

[emptypocket]

skeletor i did get into UofT

but in there letter they never stated what average i should maintain
for Mac they said to maintain 75% avg

and emptypocket i wasnt given free choice so i guess i ll have to do well in order for me to get into the stream i selected but then agoin i dont want to take that risk....


agghh so much issues just to pick a university :eek: :!:

What stream did you select? Just curious.

[beatbox]

computer engineering but now that i think about it i want to get into electrical or mechanical

[skeletor]

hmm.. I'm surprised these uni's have dropped their entrance cutoffs so much... wasn't the case for me..

[watewate]

If you're worried about getting financial help from your school, choose UofT. Not only do they have an endowment fund that no other Canadian school can even touch ($1 billion +), they actually use those funds for helping students in need. With UofT, you can ask your college, UTAPS (which is done automatically based on your OSAP assessment), and your department for funding/scholarship/bursaries. With so many ways to get money, you just have to know how and when to ask.

[simms]

If you're worried about getting financial help from your school, choose UofT. Not only do they have an endowment fund that no other Canadian school can even touch ($1 billion +), they actually use those funds for helping students in need. With UofT, you can ask your college, UTAPS (which is done automatically based on your OSAP assessment), and your department for funding/scholarship/bursaries. With so many ways to get money, you just have to know how and when to ask.

Thing is, if you're at least a BIT well off, you get nothing.

[beatbox]

any one else?

[quanta]

I went to Mac. Here are some advantages I can think of:

1. General first year. So you can meet everyone, take a standard set of Eng courses, and decide whether ECE or Mech or whatever is good for you.

2. Very easy switching of programs. For example, you could migrate to CompSci, Business, or even Medical, with some credit carryover.

3. The Engineering & Management option. A unique McMaster program, that allows you to take Business courses and Engineering in a 5-year program. Essentially you get 1/2 an MBA; if you decide to take a McMaster MBA and your grades are good, you can get an MBA in one more year. It can be an incredible competitive advantage in your future career.

Seriously though, they are both top-notch schools. The important thing is you're getting an ENGINEERING degree. They both have hard programs. No fair job recruiter will fault you for either choice.

P.S. Are you also on DSLReports?

[toalan]

In electrical U of T is ranked right behind MIT and stanford. In comp Eng they are in the top 5 or top 10 in North America. U of T has a better reputation, but Mac is up there too. You can not go wrong choosing either, but you will probally have a more enjoyable time at McMaster both academically and socially.

Anyways congrats on your acceptance, I remember how elated I was when I got accepted, I was ontop of the world, dreaming that in 4 years I could rule the world.

[skeletor]

I remember how elated I was when I got accepted, I was ontop of the world, dreaming that in 4 years I could rule the world.
heh, I remember how foolish I was then too... then the reality hit years later on how oversatured the industry is..... I know ppl still looking for jobs 12 months after grad... or end up in a field not directly related to what they wanted to do. It's not a happy ending for everyone unfortunately.

[quanta]

It's not like the good ol' days of 1999 where Nortel and JDS Uniphase virtually begged to hire engineers into high paying careers. Oh well, you gotta adapt.

Personally I think engineering as the "trial by fire" degree is worth more than any specific, arcane technical skills you may have learned.

No one questions the work ethic of an engineer! But doing integrals of imaginary numbers? Not so useful...

[toalan]

Yeah man JDS and Nortel Brings back the good old days, I used to love going to job fairs because JDS and Nortel would give us guys so much cool stuff just for showing up.

Now the only way you can make a living with Nortel is to short the stock.

[simms]

I went to Mac. Here are some advantages I can think of:

1. General first year. So you can meet everyone, take a standard set of Eng courses, and decide whether ECE or Mech or whatever is good for you.


Same with UT. You only take one course per semester that is "specialized", the rest you take with ppl from different streams.


2. Very easy switching of programs. For example, you could migrate to CompSci, Business, or even Medical, with some credit carryover.


Same for UT.


3. The Engineering & Management option. A unique McMaster program, that allows you to take Business courses and Engineering in a 5-year program. Essentially you get 1/2 an MBA; if you decide to take a McMaster MBA and your grades are good, you can get an MBA in one more year. It can be an incredible competitive advantage in your future career.


UT does better than this, they give you a FULL Rotman MBA + Engineering degree in 7 years. 2 of the years are WORK terms so it's FIVE years for a FULL MBA instead of one more year. Plus Rotman is much more well known than.. whatever Mac's School of Business is.

http://www.rotman.utoronto.ca/skoll/overview.htm

Plus all the aforementioned benefits of UT, rez, nightlife, alumni, connections, reputation, blah blah.

Good luck in either choice.

[gman]

If Mac is known to be easier to get in and study than UofT, does it mean UofT grad get a job offer easier than Mac's?

[penf]

i finished engsci comp option at u of t a few years ago.. if i could do things over again, i think i would have chosen to live in res, and picked biomed.. at that time, mcmaster had a good biomed program but i think it was (still?) only a graduate program.

maybe things have changed now. as for extracurricular things, i found that engineering culture and faculty did not encourage involvement non-engineering clubs or activities. but nothing prevents you from trying stuff out. there was some fun **** to do in hart house, and if you had socially progressive beliefs, there were a lot of groups on campus to participate in. academically, if you kept your **** together, there was no problem. you could cut a lot of classes and still get decent marks (without resorting to copying answers to problem sets too). the trouble is, theres always distractions.

[emptypocket]

UT does better than this, they give you a FULL Rotman MBA + Engineering degree in 7 years. 2 of the years are WORK terms so it's FIVE years for a FULL MBA instead of one more year. Plus Rotman is much more well known than.. whatever Mac's School of Business is.

http://www.rotman.utoronto.ca/skoll/overview.htm

I'm guessing that admission to the skoll program at U of T is much more competitive for U of T Engineering students than a first year Mac Engineering student going for the Engineering and Management program at Mac.

The business school at Mac is called "Degroote", but you're right about it being less well-known than Rotman.

[simms]

If Mac is known to be easier to get in and study than UofT, does it mean UofT grad get a job offer easier than Mac's?

Wrong correlation. Same work. Higher chance of being employed due to connections made/reputation.



I'm guessing that admission to the skoll program at U of T is much more competitive for U of T Engineering students than a first year Mac Engineering student going for the Engineering and Management program at Mac.

That's probably true, but that's also why UofT is UofT and why Mac is Mac. You're gonna have to be "better than that" to be at UofT's eng/biz program. Although Mac is fine in my book.

[gman]

Wrong correlation. Same work. Higher chance of being employed due to connections made/reputation.

What I mean is if people has the impression that people needs to work harder in UofT (not necessary true), people may consider the student of UofT is better. Hence, better chance than Mc Student. I do not dispute about the connections and reputation of UofT is better.

[simms]

What I mean is if people has the impression that people needs to work harder in UofT (not necessary true), people may consider the student of UofT is better. Hence, better chance than Mc Student. I do not dispute about the connections and reputation of UofT is better.

Ah, I see what you're getting at. I believe generally hardER working people generally go to UT overall moreso than Mac because of the higher entrange avg needed for UT Eng compared to Mac, so the people in UT engineering will have the previous knowledge of working hard to get marks moreso because they generally have higher marks when applying to university.

But anyways, I see what you're getting at. :)

[emptypocket]

That's probably true, but that's also why UofT is UofT and why Mac is Mac. You're gonna have to be "better than that" to be at UofT's eng/biz program.

As far as "eng/biz" programs go comparing the two is unfair, since the U of T program offers an MBA whereas the Mac program offers a dual undergraduate degree. If Mac offered an MBA in their management stream of engineering I'm sure the demand from Mac Engineering students would be just as great.

[quanta]

Same with UT. You only take one course per semester that is "specialized", the rest you take with ppl from different streams.
Yes, but you're already locked into your own stream. If beatbox is unsure what to take, a general first year could help.

Same for UT.
From what I understand, it is much easier to switch degrees at Mac. One guy switched from Eng and Society to Eng and Honours Comp Sci in the second term of his fourth year.

UT does better than this, they give you a FULL Rotman MBA + Engineering degree in 7 years. 2 of the years are WORK terms so it's FIVE years for a FULL MBA instead of one more year. Plus Rotman is much more well known than.. whatever Mac's School of Business is.

Rotman's is definitely better than DeGroote MBA, but I don't think it's fair to compare a 5-year combo degree with a 7 year undergrad+graduate degrees...

Also Mac has internship programs (read: CoOp) as well.

BTW, to all the folks that equate entrance averages with school "toughness", I'm afraid that's not the case. A university is a business. It's all about supply and demand. If a university doesn't have enough seats in their lecture halls for incoming students, they raise the price of admission - the entrance average.

UofT is an excellent school. But so is Mac. UofT has the fame, but on recruiter is going to kick you out of bed if you went to Mac.

P.S. Both schools also have their share of professors who can't speak English and will drive you up the wall!

[beatbox]

simms you seem to know how the work load is at UofT
so if im at a B-/B average is that suffiecent enough to get me through...
and the correlation about Mac being easier than UofT i dont know if its true but everyone that i know has said that but they also said if you have worked hard enough to get an acceptance youll make it through but then again why dont you chill and work and go to Mac rather than work work work and maybe a little bit of chill and go to UofT

and in the acceptance letter it stated that my avg should not drop signifacantly and when i called them and asked till what average will you take students in she said that just maintain your current marks....but thats kind of hard to do and if it does drop and UofT says we cant take you what do i do then??
thanks

[mintchoco]

I'm guessing that admission to the skoll program at U of T is much more competitive for U of T Engineering students than a first year Mac Engineering student going for the Engineering and Management program at Mac.


Um...not really. When I graduated 0T4, the program wasn't that popular, and they were begging anyone to go into that program who wrote the GMAT.

[beatbox]

any one else?

[manho]

if youre definite about ECE, then UT
if not, but is interested in other engineering discipline, then Mac

the truth is, it only matters in the early stage of your career which school you went to, after that, it's all experience talk, especially in engineering

i heard my manager @ coop saying the more white hair an engineer has, the more ppl believes in wht he says

if you want to do coop job interviews during your midterm week, then go with waterloo :cry:

I was surprised I got into Waterloo (Geological Engineering) with my flat 80. I was even more surprised when I got their admission package and it said I need to maintain a 70% avg to retain my placement. Maybe they're really hurting for new undergrads? :confused:

GeoE and enviro doesnt need a high average. small class too. like 15 or 20 ppl for geo and 30 for enviro each yr i think. However, if youre interested in civil but didnt make the average, GeoE and EnvE are good stepping stones to pull your average without wasting a year.

a lot of programs only need you to maintain a 70 after the acceptance. i know that UT does that too