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asim99
May 3rd, 2005, 03:59 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/03/health/03ugly.html?ei=5070&en=b0afe5ce4cdb01bc&ex=1115265600&pagewanted=print&position=

May 3, 2005
Ugly Children May Get Parental Short Shrift
By NICHOLAS BAKALAR

Parents would certainly deny it, but Canadian researchers have made a startling assertion: parents take better care of pretty children than they do ugly ones.

Researchers at the University of Alberta carefully observed how parents treated their children during trips to the supermarket. They found that physical attractiveness made a big difference.

The researchers noted if the parents belted their youngsters into the grocery cart seat, how often the parents' attention lapsed and the number of times the children were allowed to engage in potentially dangerous activities like standing up in the shopping cart. They also rated each child's physical attractiveness on a 10-point scale.

The findings, not yet published, were presented at the Warren E. Kalbach Population Conference in Edmonton, Alberta.

When it came to buckling up, pretty and ugly children were treated in starkly different ways, with seat belt use increasing in direct proportion to attractiveness. When a woman was in charge, 4 percent of the homeliest children were strapped in compared with 13.3 percent of the most attractive children. The difference was even more acute when fathers led the shopping expedition - in those cases, none of the least attractive children were secured with seat belts, while 12.5 percent of the prettiest children were.

Homely children were also more often out of sight of their parents, and they were more often allowed to wander more than 10 feet away.

Age - of parent and child - also played a role. Younger adults were more likely to buckle their children into the seat, and younger children were more often buckled in. Older adults, in contrast, were inclined to let children wander out of sight and more likely to allow them to engage in physically dangerous activities.

Although the researchers were unsure why, good-looking boys were usually kept in closer proximity to the adults taking care of them than were pretty girls. The researchers speculated that girls might be considered more competent and better able to act independently than boys of the same age. The researchers made more than 400 observations of child-parent interactions in 14 supermarkets.

Dr. W. Andrew Harrell, executive director of the Population Research Laboratory at the University of Alberta and the leader of the research team, sees an evolutionary reason for the findings: pretty children, he says, represent the best genetic legacy, and therefore they get more care.

Not all experts agree. Dr. Frans de Waal, a professor of psychology at Emory University, said he was skeptical.

"The question," he said, "is whether ugly people have fewer offspring than handsome people. I doubt it very much. If the number of offspring are the same for these two categories, there's absolutely no evolutionary reason for parents to invest less in ugly kids."

Dr. Robert Sternberg, professor of psychology and education at Yale, said he saw problems in Dr. Harrell's method and conclusions, for example, not considering socioeconomic status.

"Wealthier parents can feed, clothe and take care of their children better due to greater resources," Dr. Sternberg said, possibly making them more attractive. "The link to evolutionary theory is speculative."

But Dr. Harrell said the importance of physical attractiveness "cuts across social class, income and education."

"Like lots of animals, we tend to parcel out our resources on the basis of value," he said. "Maybe we can't always articulate that, but in fact we do it. There are a lot of things that make a person more valuable, and physical attractiveness may be one of them."

gilboman
May 3rd, 2005, 04:01 PM
i want to know how they determined the "ugly" kids from "pretty" kids ;)

asim99
May 3rd, 2005, 04:09 PM
i want to know how they determined the "ugly" kids from "pretty" kids ;)


http://www.irishhealth.com/?level=4&id=7333
The research team, led by studied more than 400 families with children aged between two and five in 14 shops. Volunteers graded each child independently on a scale of one to ten for attractiveness.

wanted
May 3rd, 2005, 04:21 PM
eeeww....they're judging kids on attractivenes..... :(

Jazzhound
May 3rd, 2005, 04:49 PM
That's quite an extrapolation, but not an improbable conclusion. People are biased; though I would say people who are superficial like this shoudl not have children. It engenders much more than mere favouritism; it breeds contempt and can lead to serious doo doo hitting the fan later on in life.

Sucks for uglies the world over, if it's profoundly common.

Roninvancouver
May 3rd, 2005, 04:54 PM
so then...people are superficial?????? OMG. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

feline
May 3rd, 2005, 05:12 PM
It's more human evolution. Unconciously humans are attracted to something that is cute and attractive. Men demonstrate this more than women. The more cuter you are the more attention you get.

danfromwaterloo
May 3rd, 2005, 05:15 PM
It's more human evolution. Unconciously humans are attracted to something that is cute and attractive. Men demonstrate this more than women. The more cuter you are the more attention you get.

This is true. Why do you think people get in such an uproar when baby seals are killed, but when its a baby cow, they call it barbeque.

Human: What are you?
Otter: I'm a baby otter. I swim around on my back making cute little faces, and splashing water on other cute little otters.
Human: You're free to go.

Human: What are you?
Cow: I'm a cow. I graze around the fields all day eating grass.
Human: Get in the back of the truck.
Cow: But I'm an animal too!
Human: You're a baseball glove, now get on the f*cking truck.

-Denis Leary

felixdd
May 3rd, 2005, 05:31 PM
Geez, I'm noticing how more and more people are attributing things to evolutionary success/downfall. Unfortunately most of the analysis are done post-hoc, with no actual empirical justification at whether or not the trait described actually infers evolutionary success, or has an evolutionary basis.

For example, the author describes that pretty children represent genetic legacy and therefore receive more attention. I can flip it around and say since the costs to progeny is so high, you would want to pay more attention to "less beautiful" children to ensure they have a higher chance of survival. If more beautiful children have better genetic makeup, then they should have more efficient metabolism/immune/defensive mechanisms and hence require less effort to survive. This points the need for them to study cases where the parent had multiple children to see if they prefer the more beautiful sibling. Or even study paternal twins to get rid of the age factor.

And if the author wants to play the evolution card, I can flip it around and say in nature, the male rarely takes care of their offspring. Therefore the father's tendency to "favor" the children is not evolutionarily based, because evolution would dictate the father to not take care of his children. To exhibit the preference would therefore be purely a socially-imposed feature, not evolutionarily rooted.

felixdd
May 3rd, 2005, 05:34 PM
This is true. Why do you think people get in such an uproar when baby seals are killed, but when its a baby cow, they call it barbeque.

But they don't eat cows in india ;).

MizTEcK
May 3rd, 2005, 05:34 PM
This is true. Why do you think people get in such an uproar when baby seals are killed, but when its a baby cow, they call it barbeque.

Human: What are you?
Otter: I'm a baby otter. I swim around on my back making cute little faces, and splashing water on other cute little otters.
Human: You're free to go.

Human: What are you?
Cow: I'm a cow. I graze around the fields all day eating grass.
Human: Get in the back of the truck.
Cow: But I'm an animal too!
Human: You're a baseball glove, now get on the f*cking truck.

-Denis Leary
rofl!!

feline
May 3rd, 2005, 05:48 PM
But they don't eat cows in india ;).
That's because they consider them holy, its a sin!

As for the seal pup vs the calf killing sympathy...the seal pup killing have been more publicized than calf killing. Also since cows are so common and are bed by humans, there is a lack of sympathy towards them are simpl viewed as part of the food chain. If you found out how cows were killed to make burgers for us you would never eat meat again!

Human evolution refers to humanity wanting to improve itself. Since most humans do judge a book by its cover, an attractive human is favorable. I don't think it's proven that attractive people are more healthier (that would be some interesting reasearch).
As for the way this research between a parent and child relationship was conducted I don't think that a grocery shop is the most efficient environment to conduct it. The home where most of the interaction takes place would give a more accurate answer.
The results however do support the general understanding of humanity. It almost seems like the researchers developed the theory and found a way to prove it. (Which happens in most tests sadly)

felixdd
May 3rd, 2005, 06:10 PM
That's because they consider them holy, its a sin!

As for the seal pup vs the calf killing sympathy...the seal pup killing have been more publicized than calf killing. Also since cows are so common and are bed by humans, there is a lack of sympathy towards them are simpl viewed as part of the food chain. If you found out how cows were killed to make burgers for us you would never eat meat again!

Human evolution refers to humanity wanting to improve itself. Since most humans do judge a book by its cover, an attractive human is favorable. I don't think it's proven that attractive people are more healthier (that would be some interesting reasearch).
As for the way this research between a parent and child relationship was conducted I don't think that a grocery shop is the most efficient environment to conduct it. The home where most of the interaction takes place would give a more accurate answer.
The results however do support the general understanding of humanity. It almost seems like the researchers developed the theory and found a way to prove it. (Which happens in most tests sadly)

If you define evolution like that then there's no argument from me. However, I think the scientist is trying to extend beyond social progression and is trying to make a statement about genetic evolution (which has nothing really to do with "improvement" in the normative sense per se).

It almost seems like the researchers developed the theory and found a way to prove it. (Which happens in most tests sadly)
It just seemed more to me that they found some results, and then boot-straped a theory to fit the results. That's not how science is done. Being psychologists, they should be more than aware of the dangers of confirmation bias.

Maybe if I feel like it I'll read the actual paper to find out if this is the case, but right now I have to study for exams :razz:

mrmoe
May 3rd, 2005, 06:32 PM
maybe
ugly childern = ugly parents
ugly parents = dumb parents

comments?

nfnx
May 4th, 2005, 04:36 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/03/health/03ugly.html?ei=5070&en=b0afe5ce4cdb01bc&ex=1115265600&pagewanted=print&position=

well duh, i could have told u that :)

feline
May 4th, 2005, 09:31 AM
ugly does NOT = dumb
Einstein!! Now there was a sexy mind wrapped in a not sexy shell.

Good luck in your exams Dan, just finished mine! whew!
Also human evolution is directly related to social progression. Our social skills have developed through the ages. And is still going...