Is Canada doomed?

[Samir]

It used to be that the government, operating in Ontario, either acted in a way that alienated the West or alienated Quebec. Now the liberals have managed to accomplish the insanely impossible and alienated the west & Quebec at the same time.

Does anyone figure that with the fall-out of the sponsorship, this country is heading towards a break-up? I can't imagine generous Albertans being happy to find out that their $9b net contribution to the confederation is being partially diverted to crooks in Montreal, and I can't imagine French Canadians getting over the massive insult to their intelligence (seriously, doesn't anyone know loyalty is earned not bought?) within the next 25 years.

Murky waters ahead.

[b166er1337]

yes Canada is doomed.
So is earth. Earth will be destroyed in a mere 5 billions years. Better be prepared ;)

[asim99]

don't think canada is doomed

few bad liberals did bad things, and they will be brought to justice for that

p.s. btw this is kinda repost of another thread on gomery commission

[Samir]

yes Canada is doomed.
So is earth. Earth will be destroyed in a mere 5 billions years. Better be prepared ;)

You make light of the fact, but imagine these scenarios:

Steve Harper is elected PM as Ontario swings to the CPC. Not one CPC candidate is elected in Quebec. Do you think it will make it easier or harder for the Bloc and the PQ to sell sovereignty to Quebecers? "We are ruled without representation..." I can already hear the discourse.

How about if the house is re-elected as it currently is? I don't live out west, in fact I'll be heading there for the first time in my whole life this year, but I can't imagine how much more alienated they will be. Given that Alberta is the only province with a balanced budget, 2-3 trillion barrels of oil on its territory that it may not want to share, how easy will it be to sell sovereignty to Albertans?

Both of those, by the way, are eminently possible.

[Samir]

don't think canada is doomed

few bad liberals did bad things, and they will be brought to justice for that

p.s. btw this is kinda repost of another thread on gomery commission

That thread deals with the commission and about whether to oust the liberals. I'm talking about a whole country here!

[Headhunter]

Unless the Conservatives take power, I don't see Canada splitting.

If the CPC does take over, I think the entire nation is screwed; we'll be following the George W. Bush School of National Destruction, without the deep pocketed Middle East investors to buy our increasing debt.

[guest10586]

Conservatives will defiantely piss off PQ and NDP. If we have liberals and scandels I don't see any major problems. The gov't is just another form of entertainment...overpaid actors...imo.

[Txiasaeia]

Unless the Conservatives take power, I don't see Canada splitting.

If the CPC does take over, I think the entire nation is screwed; we'll be following the George W. Bush School of National Destruction, without the deep pocketed Middle East investors to buy our increasing debt.

Spoken like somebody whose never had to pay *real* taxes. Let me guess: early twenties, no career, probably still get massive income tax and GST refunds. Am I right? Once you enter the real world, son, you'll discover that the government stealing hundreds of millions of tax dollars and funneling it into slush funds for their friends and family is a bad thing.

[north77]

...the government stealing hundreds of millions of tax dollars and funneling it into slush funds for their friends and family is a bad thing.

Agreed.

I wonder though... many other countries are just as corrupt or worse.. but they rarely get caught. :evil:

[gilboman]

Spoken like somebody whose never had to pay *real* taxes. Let me guess: early twenties, no career, probably still get massive income tax and GST refunds. Am I right? Once you enter the real world, son, you'll discover that the government stealing hundreds of millions of tax dollars and funneling it into slush funds for their friends and family is a bad thing.

as if the conservatives didnt do the same when they were in power ;) Just that they havent been in power and havent had the chance to do it doesnt mean they are any better.

and its not just about taxes, you have no idea how politics work if you take your simplified overgeneralization that any non alliance supporter is a non working student. there is a reason why the alliance will never form a government (or why PC havent come close in more than a decade) and it most certainly isnt taxes or how its used. Especially now with the nutjobs of reform aka alliance in control of the right, it has become an extreme right party which canada has never stood for and the demographics of the country will never support such a right wing government

issues of gay rights/marriage, immigration, abortion, etc... all the touchy subjects have been deflected by the alliance and not answered b/c 1. they are afraid when they state the party line, nobody with even slight left leanings would vote for them (ontario and eastward pretty much) 2. the party is internally doesnt even have a consensus, the reform nutjobs are in control but the few PC's in there are not totally insane yet either and there is some struggle. 3. Steven Harper is not "PM" material and quite frankly, at this stage, neither is the reform aka alliance party fit to govern b/c the party is in turmoil internally

lastly, the last election, canadians knew of the "problems" of sponsorship and anyone with half a braincell knew there probably was some mismanagement by the liberals yet the alliance didnt make any headway at height of controversy in terms of ontario and eastward. the published "findings" of the hearing is not a shock to most canadians since it was assumed in the last election already of some mismanagement. and despite the PR the alliance does, and oppourtunistic attack on liberals from the scandals, unless they can change the demographics of the country, they will not form a government b/c they are way too far on the right for most people ontario eastwards.

[asim99]

as if the conservatives didnt do the same when they were in power ;) Just that they havent been in power and havent had the chance to do it doesnt mean they are any better.

and its not just about taxes, you have no idea how politics work if you take your simplified overgeneralization that any non alliance supporter is a non working student. there is a reason why the alliance will never form a government (or why PC havent come close in more than a decade) and it most certainly isnt taxes or how its used. Especially now with the nutjobs of reform aka alliance in control of the left, it has become an extreme right party which canada has never stood for and the demographics of the country will never support such a right wing government

u took the words outta my keyboard :cheesygri

canadians are too smart to go for any holier-than-thou preachers (read: harper-ites)

[firehawk12]

^
Which is one of the few good things about being Canadian.

[anvah]

Spoken like somebody whose never had to pay *real* taxes. Let me guess: early twenties, no career, probably still get massive income tax and GST refunds. Am I right? Once you enter the real world, son, you'll discover that the government stealing hundreds of millions of tax dollars and funneling it into slush funds for their friends and family is a bad thing.

I pay real taxes. At the end of every year, I calculate how much the government took from me (in terms of income tax, pension, UI, Gas tax, GST, PST). But I am happy to pay it - I know people who are able to live because of our GREAT healthcare system. I know of others who survive (when they hit a rough spot) because of our FANTASTIC welfare system. These are not people trying to take advantage of welfare, but rather using it as it was meant to be used. I understand that in a democratic system some inefficiencies and cronyisms will exist. Honestly, you are living in the dream world if you think the Conservatives are any better. And now compare the scandals in Canada to that in the US, Britain, India, France and any other great democracy. Ours really does pale in comparison to theirs.

I assure you that I feel anger at the liberals in Quebec for taking my money. I believe they should be taught a lesson. But, I will never vote for Stephen Harper and his Conservative party. He will change this country, and for the worst. You may buy the pink glasses and the sugar water he's feeding you. I have read his writings from 10 years ago, 15 years ago - heck even 3 years ago. I don't believe a man can change that much in 3 years. Also, take a look at the 'neo-cons' who he has surrounded himself with.

I accept that Canada is in for our own moment of darkness - I fully expect the Conservatives to get a minority (or if he plays his cards right) a majority. And maybe you'll even be happy with his policies. It'll probably save you a few hundred dollars in taxes. But for me it'll be a heart break.

I love what this country stands for: attempt at shared societal responsibility, a belief and a quest to help our neighbor (though we may fail), an understanding that we must try to do our part in the world. I know a lot of small 'c' conservatives feel this way as well. But Stephen Harper and his vision for the Conservative party do not.

[Hurk]

"Henny Penny the Sky is falling!!!" - Lucy Goosey

"WOLF WOLF" - The boy who cried wolf.

[peterbrowne]

Green Party - where will they win an election

[GateGuardian]

Even if there is a re-election, I would still vote for Liberal. It's not because I like them, but because I hate them the least....lol

[eelfliw]

The discourse of impending doom generates a lot of income for journalists, university professors, think tanks and political advisors.

That's the only purpose it serves.

And when readers get tired of this, they switch the topic to "Astroid about to hit Earth" to continue income stream.

The ones who can't quite cut it with talk of impending doom end up as romance novel writers. :D

[RVachon]

Conservatives all the way and quebec can pack up their s*** and get the F*** out as far as I'm concerned. Their holier than thou BS is what's messing up this countrys rep. They want to split? Let them and they shouldn't get a damn penny from Canada for doing so. Their like spoiled brats whinning and crying all the time, and as soon as you take everything away from them and stick them in their room, they start crying about that instead.

This is also coming from a frenchman (as you can see from my name), but not a "quebec" frenchmen. I've been their once in my life and even then, their "were better than you are" attitude was shinning bright.

because of our FANTASTIC welfare system. These are not people trying to take advantage of welfare, but rather using it as it was meant to be used. Give your head a shake dude. You can count on one hand people that go on welfare that ever get off of it, and more than likely start using it fraudulently if their partner gets a good paying job, but they don't report that to welfare.

[veryhuman]

I wonder though... many other countries are just as corrupt or worse.. but they rarely get caught. :evil:

actually, in some countries, corruption is a known fact, its just about choosing which one's less corrupted

[benf]

Isn't it funny that Alberta, which contributes a big chunk of transfer payments to Ottawa, has very few liberals elected?

There is a growing resentment in the west about squandered tax dollars, and scandals like this only increase it.

The political ideologies are so different between east vs. west, that I feel that separation is really the only true solution to keep everyone happy.

The east can increase taxes even more to offset the loss in revenues that the 'have' province chips in, which will keep all the 'increase social spending' zealots happy, and we in the west can live in an economy free of heavy taxation, with plenty of extra cash in our pockets.

[aquariaguy]

The US will attack Alberta for oil and than Quebec will surrender.

[Montague]

Now the liberals have managed to accomplish the insanely impossible and alienated the west & Quebec at the same time.
uh.

old news.

been this way for a long time.

Isn't it funny that Alberta, which contributes a big chunk of transfer payments to Ottawa, has very few liberals elected?
Alberta is basically conservative and likely always will be regardless of however is in power back east.

One could run a slate of monkeys as conservatives in Alberta and they would still will in a election in that province.

Only in the urban areas of Calgary or Edmonton will you see any siginificant votes for the other major parties.

[konfusion666]

prediction for next election: another Liberal minority. maybe with a different leader.

Cons will not win because they have never made any inroads with minority groups and don't seem to be trying.

perhaps in 5-10 years the character of the Con party will change and they will become a Liberal Party version 2.0 ... then they might have a chance.

this is quite possible, if Ex-Libs like Belinda Stronach manage to obtain more powerful positions.

[guest10586]

The discourse of impending doom generates a lot of income for journalists, university professors, think tanks and political advisors.

That's the only purpose it serves.

And when readers get tired of this, they switch the topic to "Astroid about to hit Earth" to continue income stream.

The ones who can't quite cut it with talk of impending doom end up as romance novel writers. :D


Yeah, fear does create a greater consumption of goods and somehow increases productivity. This info was sorta confirmed by WW1 and WW2. Increased productivity which Bush tried to duplicate with Iraq. Unsuccessful as people didn't believe in the cause.

I don't know why but in Alberta people believe the provincial conservatives (Ralph Klien) and the federal conservatives are the same. I admit, Ralph did a good job by paying down the debt. Now he should slow down on taxation...but he hasn't really...

[neilson]

The "old" me would have something to say on this issue; but instead I think the best you guys can do is just let things play out and accept what may come, whatever that might be.

[blackhawk]

"western alienation?" it was there 30 years ago when I first went out there

'Let the eastern b**tards freeze in the dark" was one of the most popular bumper stickers when Trudeau imposed the National Energy Program(sell alberta oil and keep money in Ottawa)

nothing came of it then as most albertans cant be bothered with eastern corruption and politics, much like quebecers feel now about the liberals.....greedy people hop on the "liberal express" to make some quick money

the old conservative party had some scandals and put them in the spotlight and eventually it finished them when the right wing alliance grew out of western alienation(much like the Bloc...see the pattern?) and took away the only western vote the old conservatives always expected was there's cause no albertan would ever vote liberal and admit it

now the liberal campaign consists of screaming "Better the devil you know than the devil you dont!" Vote for us!


If there's an election forced, quebec will go all Bloc as they have before, west will go all Conservative(except parts of wacky land...BC) and Ontario will split.

The NDP and Jack 'lapdog' Layton hasn't impressed anyone with his pride at being Martins right hand boy along with Gille and now that the conservatives have their platform hammered out a bit better they can do some advertising and get a few more votes in Ontario and maybe even the l'east coast.

It will probably end up being another minority with the conservatives in but the eel like liberals will slither over a bit more left and do the same as always, pledge allegiance to the liberal party and plot to regain power.

In the meantime, GW Shrub will be rubbing his hands over canadian water and oil now that the oil price is high enough to make the tar sands more viable, and they dont even have to buy lumber or ca'cows! Aint free trade great!

[bluetroll]

liberals suck.... its all YOU ppl who voted for those turds!

[Sgt_Strider]

You make light of the fact, but imagine these scenarios:

Steve Harper is elected PM as Ontario swings to the CPC. Not one CPC candidate is elected in Quebec. Do you think it will make it easier or harder for the Bloc and the PQ to sell sovereignty to Quebecers? "We are ruled without representation..." I can already hear the discourse.

How about if the house is re-elected as it currently is? I don't live out west, in fact I'll be heading there for the first time in my whole life this year, but I can't imagine how much more alienated they will be. Given that Alberta is the only province with a balanced budget, 2-3 trillion barrels of oil on its territory that it may not want to share, how easy will it be to sell sovereignty to Albertans?

Both of those, by the way, are eminently possible.

AFAIK, no parties can form a majority w/o Quebec. The Conservatives can gain support from religious people in Quebec that opposes gay marriage. Well if evidence continues to come in to support the notion that the Liberals conducted criminal activity, then they're finished. They will die like the PC's did after the 1993 election. The questions you guys should ask yourself is if Canada will survive another sovereignty referendum and if the Liberal Party will self destruct if the allegations are proven true.

[7jai]

yes Canada is doomed.
So is earth. Earth will be destroyed in a mere 5 billions years. Better be prepared ;)

5 billiion years? *counts fingers* hmm i dont think i would be alive at that time lol

[Prometheus]

We're in trouble when a gov't elects judges who have similar views on issues (as the gov't) in order to to get favourable descisions.

Then gov't can then make changes and MP's can say they had no choice but to follow the court's decision. No duh...

[Rosico]

The only thing that concerns me is that for a responsible democracy to occur, there must be the sentiment that there is a gov't in waiting. That is, there is the possibility for citizens to vote out the ruling party and put in place another party. The big tent liberals have done an amazing job at demonizing the alliance->conservatives. Now, with the C's policy convention being dealt with, people will at least know where they stand (which is more centrist in comparison to reform/alliance). Still not my personal cup of tea, but I think they stand a shot at a minority/slim majority.

People want choice and the power to 'vote the bums out' Gomery may fuel more seperatistism talk, but I personally think Quebecers are smart enough to know that economically, they are better off within Canada. And Gilles is still in ottawa too ...

[Spent]

Screw these gd moronic bible pounders they're had!
That's the real problem with the conservatives right now,
way too many unbending :twisted: church folk. :mad:

[Txiasaeia]

Screw these gd moronic bible pounders they're had!
That's the real problem with the conservatives right now,
way too many unbending :twisted: church folk. :mad:

Let me get this straight: you're saying that Christians are moronic?

[Ojam]

Let me get this straight: you're saying that Christians are moronic?

Don't bother with him txia, s/he attacked me for not smoking dope in hurk's thread. :|

[neilson]

the hell if I'm gonna defend things; I told you guys I've changed. I know it makes these political discussions more vanilla, but at least give me some props for being the bigger man and doing this. I just plea to Spent that he shows a bit more consideration toward those that may not agree on his political stance.

[Ojam]

the hell if I'm gonna defend things; I told you guys I've changed. I know it makes these political discussions more vanilla, but at least give me some props for being the bigger man and doing this. I just plea to Spent that he shows a bit more consideration toward those that may not agree on his political stance.

I'm sure he's just a pre-pubescent 15 year old (aka late bloomer) so it really doesn't matter what he says.

[neilson]

I'm sure he's just a pre-pubescent 15 year old (aka late bloomer) so it really doesn't matter what he says.

lol, probably so Ojam. Probably so :twisted:

[benf]

lol, probably so Ojam. Probably so :twisted:

Sad thing is, most of Ontario shares his leftist attitudes.

[Txiasaeia]

Don't bother with him txia, s/he attacked me for not smoking dope in hurk's thread. :|

It's just frustrating because a lot of people who are otherwise quite bright and intelligent seem to have this blindness when it comes to religion. It's as if they've spent their entire life thinking about everything else, but when it comes to the church their hackles come up and things like "Moronic bible thumpers!" come out of their mouths. Some Christians are radical, extreme people who want to get rid of everybody who doesn't believe in what they believe; members of the KKK, for example, are quite virulent in their beliefs about God. Other Christians lean the same way, treating the Church as a crutch and believing that God is within all of us. I just don't understand why anybody with a balanced viewpoint can believe that "the Church" is this one huge nebulous entity where two billion people share the same beliefs, attitudes and thought patterns. I mean, there are Christians who are pro-abortion and others who are anti-abortion. Some believe in gay marriage, others don't. There's such a wide spectra of beliefs, and for crying out loud, it's a *third* of the population of the earth! /rant

I guess politics is a bit like that too (getting back on topic): I have an extremely negative view of liberals, but not all liberals are necessarily bad. Look at what Sheila Fraser did for not just those who voted liberal but for *all* of Canada! But on the other hand, the current and past liberal governments have not increased my faith in the party - instead of becoming stronger as a nation, we're simply bickering amongst ourselves because our leaders for the past ten years have been more concerned with lining their own pockets than getting anything of relevance dealt with (hardwood dispute and the beef debate which has gotten *nowhere* under the current regime,for example). The liberals have been in power for far too long. It's time to send somebody else into the ring - Conservative or NDP, doesn't really matter for me as much as getting the liberals out of power. So yes, I think that Canada is doomed if we keep on this same self-serving path.

[Ojam]

Sad thing is, most of Ontario shares his leftist attitudes.

Wait a sec, now I consider myself somewhat socially left, and I don't think all conservatives are bible thumpers, I do however think that the bible thumpers (and this does not mean ALL religous people) are the loudest on the con side, making it seam that way sometimes. Also I think there are far too many people who still haven’t learned that not everybody shares their religious views and seem to want to force them down everybody’s throat, but I think they are in the minority on the con side. Unfortunately it would seem that for some strange reason your elected leaders "seam" (note this does not mean they are) that they fall in that category, and if only you could realize this, and stop doing it there might be a greater chance of a conservative government. The key to Canada (at least this is what I think) is Socially moderate to left, fiscally moderate to right, and then and only then you can get elected on your own terms rather then just because the other guy ****ed up. (Note this is just my big theory of Canadian politics, and could be completely wrong)

[webdoctors]

unfortunately there is no good party out there, they are all evil.

I hate the PCs for the GST.

hate the Liberals for being just as corrupt as the PCs plus not getting rid of the GST like they PROMISEd.

I hate the NDP for being extremely corrupt.

I don;t like reform because I am a minority so they dont feel I belong here.

I may vote Bloc, any BlocQuebecois candidates running in Markham? :)

either that or gReen Party...

[Spent]

Your god(s) have no place in our legislatures.

I believe politicians who base their actions
primarily on the bible are not worthy to be elected.
They are loose cannons and can't be trusted.
People who think they may be whisked away
at any moment are flippin fruitcakes.
This is why the US president is such a fark up.
Beware people who frequently quote the bible.

Apparently some of you lack the ability to read.
The bible pounders I was speaking of are
in reference to the last 2 leaders of the Reform/Conservative party
They were/are scum sucking lying hypocritical bible pounders
and this is why the majority of Canadians won't support them.

I am a man but I'll knock you on your ass if you
try to interfere with a woman's right to choose.
Individual rights and privacy trump anything in
your so called holy word book.

Religion has NO PLACE in politics.
and while I'm on the subject The Separate School Boards
SHOULD BE ELIMINATED.
There is a tremendous amount of money being wasted by
duplication of our school systems.

[benf]

Your god(s) have no place in our legislatures.

Religion has NO PLACE in politics.
and while I'm on the subject The Separate School Boards
SHOULD BE ELIMINATED.
There is a tremendous amount of money being wasted by
duplication of our school systems.

You forget that the founders of this country of Canada were from European ancestry, and were Catholics. In fact, about 13 millions Canadians are Catholics, still the largest religious group in Canada.

And here in Canada, we are tolerant of all religions. Other religous states are not so tolerant.

[Spent]

myth believers. :rolleyes: who believe what's in
a work of fiction trumps individual rights and freedoms.
Religion should NOT be in our legislatures.

p.s. the original occupants of this country who
had the country stolen from them were NOT christians.

p.s. I don't know what kind of fictional history books you've
read but Canada was founded mainly by Protestants
NOT RC

[neilson]

myth believers. :rolleyes: who believe what's in
a work of fiction trumps individual rights and freedoms.
Religion should NOT be in our legislatures.

Spent; I was once like you. Arrogent and obnoxious in my political ranting. It was wrong, and only now am I able to ray and redeem myself on this Board.

Spent, I don't want you to go through the same road I did; it's not fun, and it's ineffective in getting your message out.

Spent; please listen to me.

[Spent]

now am I able to ray and redeem myself on this Board

The first step in becoming a good preacher is to make sense. :razz:

[neilson]

The first step in becoming a good preacher is to make sense. :razz:

Ojam, roninvancouver, daninwaterloo, everyone; explain to Spent that he DOES NOT want to become the way I was for the past year.

[felixdd]

Ojam, roninvancouver, daninwaterloo, everyone; explain to Spent that he DOES NOT want to become the way I was for the past year.

There is no better teacher than experience. Leave him be.

[Ojam]

Neilson could be extremely rude, and at times insulting in his communication of his viewpoints in the past. It wasn't his viewpoint that I think the problem was, but the way he chose to communicate. Over the last few weeks this has changed drastically, and I do applaud him for it. I do think however that it would not be bad if he did express himself, just in a more, I guess political way. (no pun intended)

[neilson]

There is no better teacher than experience. Leave him be.

Fine; I just want to save him the trouble of what's to come but apperantly he's just too stubborn to heed my repeated warnings.

Good luck Spent.

You'll need it.

[neilson]

Neilson could be extremely rude, and at times insulting in his communication of his viewpoints in the past. It wasn't his viewpoint that I think the problem was, but the way he chose to communicate. Over the last few weeks this has changed drastically, and I do applaud him for it. I do think however that it would not be bad if he did express himself, just in a more, I guess political way. (no pun intended)

I'll begin to reengage in political banter slowly; but right now I'm still in that transition period. Something as dramatic as what I am doing takes time; time to figure my best way of communicating my viewpoints in a more soft manner. Suffice to say; it'll be classy and respectful to you all.

[Txiasaeia]

Apparently some of you lack the ability to read.
The bible pounders I was speaking of are
in reference to the last 2 leaders of the Reform/Conservative party
They were/are scum sucking lying hypocritical bible pounders and this is why the majority of Canadians won't support them.


First of all, what proof do you have that Manning & Day are "scum sucking, lying [and] hypocritcal"? Second, can you honestly say with straight face that Manning and Day are worse than Chretien and Martin after reading the coverage of the Gomery inquiry? Third, what right do you have to criticise Christianity if you won't let anybody criticise what you believe in? Fourth, if we lack the ability to read, how in the world am I replying to your post? You're being ridiculous.

"They are loose cannons and can't be trusted." Oh, come now. Christians are the most untrustworthy people in this country? I take it you've never volunteered any time inside of a jail, have you? But let me guess: you think that we should criminalise religion, and that everybody who believes in God should be sent to jail or a mental institution, right?

"p.s. the original occupants of this country who had the country stolen from them were NOT christians."

First of all, the country was not stolen from the aboriginal inhabitants of Canada. That's the US you're thinking of. Second, Canada has severely screwed up in regards to the native population, and they're still screwing up, but what the heck does that have to do with Christianity? Liberals and Conservatives alike have been institutionalising natives, stealing their culture and language, and "Westernising" them against their will for the last two hundred years. Yes, Christians have been responsible for this, but blaming Christians today for the mistakes that *other* Christians made a hundred years ago is like blaming the German people today for the "mistakes" (there's no word to describe it) of the Nazi party.

The ghettoisation of the aboriginal peoples of Canada is only marginally better than the assimilation and genocide perpetrated by the Americans and nearly every other colonising force since the beginning of time. And yet, at the same time, it's true that Canada was founded on Christian PRINCIPLES. Are you perfect? Don't you have ideals that you try to live up to? Just because Christians aren't perfect, doesn't mean that you need to slam Christianity. But of course you obviously have no idea what you're talking about, else you'd sound a touch more informed.

"myth believers. who believe what's in a work of fiction trumps individual rights and freedoms."

I'm going to say this one more time, boy. Not all Christians are the same. Some believe that the Bible is a "myth" (in the sense that it is based on fact, but that the stories are not exactly what happened). Some believe in a woman's right to choose. Some believe that the Bible is subordinate to the law of the land. Do you get the point yet?

Your one-sided rant against a fictional group of people is simply ridiculous. If you want to meet a real Christian, go find a church and explain everything you've written here to the pastor and tell us what he says. Unless you're willing to do that, then I suggest you keep quiet, as you're embarassing yourself.

[Sgt_Strider]

I honestly wouldn't vote for Liberal if Paul Martin was in power. How can the guy not know ANYTHING at all that is related to the sponsorship scandal? That's ******** and I'm amazed no evidence has come out to point that he's lieing. Either he's damn lucky or he really was telling the truth. At this point in time I refuse to believe in the 2nd option. It makes zero sense to me and it looks like Jean Chretien's legacy has already been tainted with the sponsorship scandal. He was a good prime minister, but I have lost respect for him for the way he handle this whole investigation. I don't mind paying $250 million to brainwash Quebeckers, but I do have a problem with giving my money directly to Liberal supporters for little to no work.

[Spent]

Just remember that he is is such a moron that
he wanted us to go to Iraq

http://www.la-mancha.net/archives/000249.html
with king of the right wing jerkoffs GWB

That is one of the few good things cretin did :razz:
keep us out of that swamp

[ichpen]

Just thought I'd drop in briefly with my own subtle critique of the situation.

Frankly, in my own limited experience any party that has been in power for over 2 terms tends to go stale if not a little crooked. I saw this in the early nineties when the Conservatives were thrown out in the UK. And I'm seeing this occur here now.

Despite some very objectionable characters and views in the PC ranks (not to mention ineffective leadership) I would actually welcome a minority conservative government at this stage. This will certainly ensure that no radical agendas ever surface during their term and will give the liberals a one would hope thoroughly embarassing 3-4 years in opposition to get their act together. Despite the fact that I am on board with some of the liberal agenda.

I'm already seeing the subtle byproducts of their [Libs] spin doctors being quoted in this forum... "It was a a small wing of the Liberal party". "We'll give the money back if found guilty". I mean come on, it's akin to saying I've just been caught robbing a bank so I'll just promise to return the money and all will be well. Or the classic "Beware of the Conservative hidden agenda".

I hope at least some decent criminal charges come out of this.

There's always a choice.

Apologies for deviating too much to the Gomery commission.

[benf]

...us to go to Iraq....keep us out of that swamp

Iraq.. swamp..

geographic genius here.

[Spent]

right wingnuts to know what a metaphor is. :-0

Anyone who thinks harper would be better needs
ANOTHER
lobotomy.

For you I should have used morASS :lol:

[benf]

A nice way to end your idiotic drivel..

Off to ignore list you go..

[neilson]

right wingnuts to know what a metaphor is. :-0

Anyone who thinks harper would be better needs
ANOTHER
lobotomy.

For you I should have used morASS :lol:

I swear Spent; I TRIED Warning you to change, to not be like I was.

Oh well; be stubbern and hardheaded then, but you're only gonna be talking to yourself.