Why cant the TTC do this?

[UrbanPoet]

Hire new people to take over the jobs of the old people?
They make it seem like your not allowed to do taht...
Or why cant they hire people on contract?

Im not that familar to Unions, and for people that arent too familar with them will probably think the same thing as me. "Hire new ppl to replace the greedy bums!!"

[Homer88]

I believe it is more difficult to fire people when theres a union

[Mr. Robo]

It's the same with government and postal workers. Unions protect their jobs.

[GateGuardian]

If I remember correctly, Bob Rae passed a bill if not a similar bill that made this action illegal.

[gman]

Second, their jobs are protected by the Union which have rules regarding what % of new workers can be hired,

I am pretty sure this is false. Union seldeom disallow hiring more workers if that happens at all. More workers mean more power to the Union. Also, in theory, less work load to the existing workers. What union protect is the seniority. That is they have to layoff 'new' workers before they can touch the 'old' workers.

[eelfliw]

Because Canada is a left-leaning country, scabs are often frawned upon.

That said, I'm all for opening up the market to competitions from the private sector. TTC has had the monopoly for too long.

[kingsley]

The last time a company hired scabs someone got killed. :eek: :eek:

[NLI10D]

Because Canada is a left-leaning country, scabs are often frawned upon.

That said, I'm all for opening up the market to competitions from the private sector. TTC has had the monopoly for too long.

its a great idea but it will tie up the road. 2-3 bus companies u could choose from to get to somewhere. obviously these companies would want as many people riding their bus as oppose to the competition. cheaper fair, more frequent service. then of course the competition would try to match it too. that's alot of congestion and pollution.

[ryanj]

Why cant the TTC do this?

what they should do is restrict the service instead of going on a full blown strike. like have half the buses than normal on each route. sure it would be crowded but then it will show how dependent Toronto is on the TTC.

[Homer88]

Im all pro for killing off the union and firing all the staff whos making more than 20 bucks an hour and wanting a raise.

[guest10586]

I actually read it in a case study where the Management of a company was hiring alot of workers. They gave the new workers better packages and pursaded them to tell other workers to opt out of the Union. In the end, the Union was disbanded.

What company is this? I'll go to that company and make my own union.

[AudiDude]

Every time an essential or near essential service is interrupted, resourceful people find different ways to get the job done. A strike will only lessen the amount of riders that use the service because it will allow the opportunity to explore new possibilities for those inconvenienced. When Bell Canada had a major outage on July 16, 1999, all the affected businesses learned to have multiple telcos providing dialtone so that if one goes, the others will provide service still. This new style of thinking has cost Bell Canada FOREVER. Nobody will ever "put all their eggs in one basket" again. Every strike or negative action will draw attention to the parties involved. I know some people that would like to publish TTC wages and their appropriate associated job titles, so that the people and students that take the TTC and work a lot more for a lot less can see where their money is going.

[ryanj]

Every time an essential or near essential service is interrupted, resourceful people find different ways to get the job done. A strike will only lessen the amount of riders that use the service because it will allow the opportunity to explore new possibilities for those inconvenienced. When Bell Canada had a major outage on July 16, 1999, all the affected businesses learned to have multiple telcos providing dialtone so that if one goes, the others will provide service still. This new style of thinking has cost Bell Canada FOREVER. Nobody will ever "put all their eggs in one basket" again. Every strike or negative action will draw attention to the parties involved.

thats true, but the ttc is not in any direct competition with any other company. and i dont think the ttc is going to lose many riders over this, actually with the gas prices rising im sure they are going to get more riders this summer.

[gman]

I actually read it in a case study where the Management of a company was hiring alot of workers. They gave the new workers better packages and pursaded them to tell other workers to opt out of the Union. In the end, the Union was disbanded.

A normal union will not allow the company to hire new workers with better package, period. Otherwise, the company is not exactly an "union shop".

[evilserge]

Every time an essential or near essential service is interrupted, resourceful people find different ways to get the job done. A strike will only lessen the amount of riders that use the service because it will allow the opportunity to explore new possibilities for those inconvenienced. When Bell Canada had a major outage on July 16, 1999, all the affected businesses learned to have multiple telcos providing dialtone so that if one goes, the others will provide service still. This new style of thinking has cost Bell Canada FOREVER. Nobody will ever "put all their eggs in one basket" again. Every strike or negative action will draw attention to the parties involved. I know some people that would like to publish TTC wages and their appropriate associated job titles, so that the people and students that take the TTC and work a lot more for a lot less can see where their money is going.
the difference between ttc and bell is that the ttc is a monopoly and theres no other competition. im a student myself and i have no other options there are no other bus services in the gta to get me to class for $2, if i were to purchase a car id have to worry about a parking pass, insurance, gas and the car itself. i cannot bike to class, its a 1 1/2 hour bus/subway ride. I will still be using the ttc after the strike or after any outragous price hike same with the thousands of riders everyday, we are depend on this service.

Lastly you cannot replace ttc staff, think of how much time and money it would take to train new staff. This can all end monday for all we know.

[plisk3n]

Because Canada is a left-leaning country, scabs are often frawned upon.

That said, I'm all for opening up the market to competitions from the private sector. TTC has had the monopoly for too long.

Sure open up the market, I honestly don't think that will make any difference at all.

Has any Public Transport system been able to sustain itself with out any sort of Government subsidies? It costs millions of dollars just to keep the crappy system running in it's shoddy current state.

Just look at Hwy 407, everyone thought it would be a great idea to have the private sector operate the roads, now look at what a joke it's become. They raise the damn tolls every year.

Hydro is an other example of privatizing gone wrong.

I'm all for open competition and all, but you have to realize that running some of these things isn't cheap, and that's why we need the government to step in and assist.

[AudiDude]

the difference between ttc and bell is that the ttc is a monopoly and theres no other competition. im a student myself and i have no other options there are no other bus services in the gta to get me to class for $2, if i were to purchase a car id have to worry about a parking pass, insurance, gas and the car itself. i cannot bike to class, its a 1 1/2 hour bus/subway ride. I will still be using the ttc after the strike or after any outragous price hike same with the thousands of riders everyday, we are depend on this service.

Lastly you cannot replace ttc staff, think of how much time and money it would take to train new staff. This can all end monday for all we know.

There is no competition right now, keep pissing people off and it will happen. The garbagemen used to think like this. There is a breaking point for everything.You and others seem to be a little too confident that TTC staff can't be replaced. So what do they do that I can't do? Sit in a booth all day? Drive a streetcar that doesn't change lanes? The most difficult thing that they do is drive a bus, which other companies drive trucks that are larger in the same traffic. People drive cab in the same traffic. People use rickshaws in the same traffic. I know several people that work there and if I had to describe them intellectually or otherwise, there could be nothing good said. Why should these fools all get paid the same because they wear the same shirt (everyday probably). They should pay more for the more difficult jobs and less for the easy ones, and if they can't figure that out, I am confident somebody will take over that will.I guarantee you keeping the all mighty TTC going has nothing on keeping the 400 series highways open for business. So it affects you. Get a job, wife, house, and kids, and see how useless the TTC is to you and how much you will pay NOT to use it and park your own car that you have to buy insurance for and pay for gas. You can't load your kid's hockey bag onto the TTC and drop him off for practice on your way to your daughter's ballerina class, it just doesn't work. So the TTC isn't the better way.I'm sorry that it affects you, but hopefully if everybody makes enough noise, something permanent can be done, and I am sure it will be. Bell used to be considered one of the best jobs you could have, and now look at it. Competition is good, as companies are forced to pay those who contribute and release those that don't.

[gman]

There is no competition right now, keep pissing people off and it will happen. The garbagemen used to think like this. There is a breaking point for everything.You and others seem to be a little too confident that TTC staff can't be replaced. So what do they do that I can't do? Sit in a booth all day? Drive a streetcar that doesn't change lanes? The most difficult thing that they do is drive a bus, which other companies drive trucks that are larger in the same traffic. People drive cab in the same traffic. People use rickshaws in the same traffic. I know several people that work there and if I had to describe them intellectually or otherwise, there could be nothing good said. Why should these fools all get paid the same because they wear the same shirt (everyday probably). They should pay more for the more difficult jobs and less for the easy ones, and if they can't figure that out, I am confident somebody will take over that will.I guarantee you keeping the all mighty TTC going has nothing on keeping the 400 series highways open for business. So it affects you. Get a job, wife, house, and kids, and see how useless the TTC is to you and how much you will pay NOT to use it and park your own car that you have to buy insurance for and pay for gas. You can't load your kid's hockey bag onto the TTC and drop him off for practice on your way to your daughter's ballerina class, it just doesn't work. So the TTC isn't the better way.I'm sorry that it affects you, but hopefully if everybody makes enough noise, something permanent can be done, and I am sure it will be. Bell used to be considered one of the best jobs you could have, and now look at it. Competition is good, as companies are forced to pay those who contribute and release those that don't.

I used to think competition is good. It is good for one thing. It will drive TTC worker's salary down. But, it will not drive the fare down. If the competition is open, what TTC wants will be profit. You may think we will not give tax dollar to TTC but I don't think the tax you pay will be less.

Hong Kong is very competitive in transportation. There are many ways (operated by different company) to move you from point A to point B, subway, bus (more than one company), mini-bus, green mini-bus, shuttle bus, taxi, ferries, etc. It is very competitive. However, their 'competitive' public transportation system (as anybody can use it) is pretty expensive comparing to here.

I feel sad that when I heard that people cannot take a job because getting them to the work place costs too much. I feel sad to hear that some people could not afford to go for every job interview because getting there costs too much.

[eelfliw]

Sure open up the market, I honestly don't think that will make any difference at all.

Has any Public Transport system been able to sustain itself with out any sort of Government subsidies? It costs millions of dollars just to keep the crappy system running in it's shoddy current state.

Just look at Hwy 407, everyone thought it would be a great idea to have the private sector operate the roads, now look at what a joke it's become. They raise the damn tolls every year.

Hydro is an other example of privatizing gone wrong.

I'm all for open competition and all, but you have to realize that running some of these things isn't cheap, and that's why we need the government to step in and assist.
I'm not advocating ending government subsidies. In fact, your example of the 407 is an excellent example why government shouldn't wash its hands of infrastructure.

I am, however, for opening up the transit service to private sector competition with portion of the current government subsidy that goes to TTC allocated for private operators. This way, the governmente still has a say in how they operate, and the services will improve due to competition.

I am not for privatizing TTC the way Hydro was privatized. Besides, the startup cost of hydro is enormous compared to the startup cost of transit service (eg. each hydro tower cost as much as a small bus). TTC shouldn't be privatized. Instead, competition should be allowed.

Currently, the government will not license bus services that run TTC routes. I believe it should. And the government should also allocate TTC grants to TTC competitors based on usage.

[AudiDude]

I'm not advocating ending government subsidies. In fact, your example of the 407 is an excellent example why government shouldn't wash its hands of infrastructure.

I am, however, for opening up the transit service to private sector competition with portion of the current government subsidy that goes to TTC allocated for private operators. This way, the governmente still has a say in how they operate, and the services will improve due to competition.

I am not for privatizing TTC the way Hydro was privatized. Besides, the startup cost of hydro is enormous compared to the startup cost of transit service (eg. each hydro tower cost as much as a small bus). TTC shouldn't be privatized. Instead, competition should be allowed.

Currently, the government will not license bus services that run TTC routes. I believe it should. And the government should also allocate TTC grants to TTC competitors based on usage.

This sound like a fair idea to me! gman, there are many services that are competitive and we get better product than we would if there were no competition. If it takes me twice as long to get back and forth from work, it would still be worth it for me to work 1/2 hour longer everyday(paid of course) to free up 2 hours worth of time. Working for myself, I always have to make the decision if doing certain jobs is worth my time going at all. When I went to school downtown, the TTC didn't have enough frequent trains for me to get to Union station fast enough to catch the train, so I had to wait another hour for the next one. This cost me an hour's pay. It would have been better for me to pay a little extra to get there on time, so I could free up that hour to make a lot more money.

[neilson]

Good luck to all on Monday; I hope the strike is short and sweet.

[webdoctors]

they do this in Taiwan, and its funny watching the buses race for customers....however they drive agressively, outracing sedans frequently....

[gman]

This sound like a fair idea to me! gman, there are many services that are competitive and we get better product than we would if there were no competition. If it takes me twice as long to get back and forth from work, it would still be worth it for me to work 1/2 hour longer everyday(paid of course) to free up 2 hours worth of time. Working for myself, I always have to make the decision if doing certain jobs is worth my time going at all. When I went to school downtown, the TTC didn't have enough frequent trains for me to get to Union station fast enough to catch the train, so I had to wait another hour for the next one. This cost me an hour's pay. It would have been better for me to pay a little extra to get there on time, so I could free up that hour to make a lot more money.

I assume you did not mean to talk to me. :D

[actuary]

Privatization of public transit is fine, but I don't think there is a company in the world that would take on the TTC's role. It's not profitable, the start up costs are in the billions and the territory is so spread out (unlike Hong Kong) that the operating costs would be huge. Not to mention that the majority of people prefer cars to public transit in Toronto.

Also, with privatization, there is the risk that the new transit company will only service profitable routes. This can leave whole areas of Toronto without public transit.

[nano]

toronto needs dollar vans