timing chain - ever need service?

[synaptech]

Ok so I brought my car in for it's 100,000 maintenance and I wanted to know about the timing belt. Seems my car has a chain, not a belt, and the service manager said he has the same car and that the chain never really needs maintenance. Is this correct? I'd hate to find out the hard way...

Thanks

[700mb80min]

leave it alone ...totally different from a belt , you`ll hear it even starting to get bad and likely never will .

[synaptech]

thanks

[advantage21]

Timing belts usually neets to get replaced every 100,000 Km or so, depending on your make.

[SoNgMaN]

as do timing chains, they need the tensioners replaced and you should also replace the chain.

vr6?

[gilboman]

as do timing chains, they need the tensioners replaced and you should also replace the chain.

vr6?

you are totally clueless...

[Hurk]

Judging by this thread you don't need to.

http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?p=3634882#post3634882

[SoNgMaN]

you are totally clueless...

i guess you are mister certifited mechanic and all knowing being of RFD? are timing chains made of some super alloy that doesn't wear? are the tensioners made of these same super alloy. :rolleyes:

maybe you should take your attitude and timing chain and hang yourself with it.

[eelfliw]

Check your manual. There are so many different engines out there it's impossible for anyone to guess if your timing chain needs periodic maintenance.

[gilboman]

i guess you are mister certifited mechanic and all knowing being of RFD? are timing chains made of some super alloy that doesn't wear? are the tensioners made of these same super alloy. :rolleyes:

maybe you should take your attitude and timing chain and hang yourself with it.

tensioners are one thing, you dont need to change them at an "interval", but you dont need to change the chain at the sametime as the tensioner if they need to.

by your reasoning, since the car is made of metal, if the tensioner is shot, unless the body is made from some super alloy, lets change all the body panels and while were at it the frame of the car too :lol:

maybe you should educate yourself on timming chains first.. i would've suggested google but from the other thread you obviously have no idea how to google anything to get meaningful results.

[synaptech]

Check your manual. There are so many different engines out there it's impossible for anyone to guess if your timing chain needs periodic maintenance.

I did consult the manual, but it did not mention the timing chain, nor does GM's general mantenance schedule. This is why I asked the service manager and why I'm aksing here.

[dealforme]

Older cars uses chains alot of the newer ones has move to the belt...less damage when they go.

Either one need to be replace after 100K Kms.

[weedb0y]

Timing belts usually neets to get replaced every 100,000 Km or so, depending on your make.


He's talking about Timing chains..Most newer engines come with them. My car's reaching 300K w/ timiing chain.

2.2L GM engine..

[weedb0y]

Older cars uses chains alot of the newer ones has move to the belt...less damage when they go.

Either one need to be replace after 100K Kms.

quite the opposite actually..

check the new engine configurations.. nissan's engines are mostly chains, gm ones are too.. and I dont know about other ones but those are from my own experience..

Belts break after high mileage. Buddy's Ford Probe/Mazda engine busted on the highway!

[pandaharo]

Timing chains are suppose to last as long as your engine and dont need service. Service rep at Nissan told me this.

[phillbert]

I dont think any modern day GM's use timing chains anymore. anyways, even though you have a chain it still needs to be serviced as scheduled. Timing chains only advantage to me is its durability. I personally have a non interference engine, so i drive until it snaps and i am still ok.

[synaptech]

Well it's a 2000 Pontiac V6 - not sure if you consider that modern day.

[weedb0y]

mine's a 95 engine.. and same engine is used till 99.. so thats pretty new.. i can find out if the 99+ engines are belts or not..but i would imagine chains are more durable..so why the f wont they use that? I know my old school corolla had a belt?

[gilboman]

I dont think any modern day GM's use timing chains anymore. anyways, even though you have a chain it still needs to be serviced as scheduled. Timing chains only advantage to me is its durability. I personally have a non interference engine, so i drive until it snaps and i am still ok.

i think its the other way around, modern cars use chains since they dont stretch like a belt would and there is no servicing to the chain required (there is nth you can do to/for it)

[TrevorK]

When a chain stretches, your timing goes all wacky and the car runs like ****.

When a belt stretches, it typically snaps and you usually (In an interference engine) rebuild the top end.



As to whether to change it - the only time I change a chain in when there is too much slack in it, causing the timing to go wacky. It isn't like a belt, which should have the same performance through it's lifetime....

That being said - chains seem to go forever....

[The Shirker]

i guess you are mister certifited mechanic and all knowing being of RFD? are timing chains made of some super alloy that doesn't wear? are the tensioners made of these same super alloy. :rolleyes:

maybe you should take your attitude and timing chain and hang yourself with it.

I agree. I have an older VR6 and I, along with a bunch of people I know with these wonderful VW engines, had to replace the chains and tensioners around the 200,000km mark. They do start to make quite a bit of noise so you know when it's time. I can't speak for GM or any other make though.

[eelfliw]

I did consult the manual, but it did not mention the timing chain, nor does GM's general mantenance schedule. This is why I asked the service manager and why I'm aksing here.
In that case, the service manager is right. It doesn't need replacing. Unless, of course, you use the engine under racing conditions (rapid accel/de-accel) as that will stretch the chain.

Again, depending on the car, your valves and camshaft will probably wear out before the chain.

[weedb0y]

Hopefully, I won't have to! Mine's at 289K right now and I really dont want to do any engine work.

[jed]

This is likely an OHV engine so the only time the chain is changed is when you do the cam. If you want to do maintenance, especially on a GM, change your fuel filter annually, oil & filter every 5k, air about every 30k (depending upon conditions), transmission @ 160,000k, Dex-Cool @ 5yr/160,000km, tire rotation every 20k, plugs @ 160,000k, and if theres a cap and rotor, change them too.

Biggest one I've seen is fuel filter. With the electric pumps, they'll squeeze the gas thru a mostly plugged filter right up until its full, then either quit or you'll be replacing the pump because its been overtaxed all this while. In either case a fuel filter is cheap compared to dropping the tank (and its usually full) to replace the pump.

That and coolant. Gets way overlooked. Regular stuff should be changed every 2 yrs, red(pink) stuff every 5yrs.

[stealth]

I've never seen Timing chains with tensioners. They use sprockets/gears. Isnt a chain is too rigid to be able to modify with a spring loaded tensioner? That would be like having a tensioner on a motorcycle chain.

Most newer cars use belts though, so make sure, because in these "interference engines" when it snaps the engine goes out of time and pistons meet valves.

Timing CHAINS usually only have to be changed when the motor is rebuilt (just a good idea-more accurate timing that way).

I was thrilled to discover that my latest vehicle a 2001 Dodge Durango uses a chain instead of a belt! Yay, no $1500. 100k timing belt service!
Trevor, you seem pretty sharp. Any idea why the move to timing belts? How do they legitimize the additional maintenance expense and risk?
I really dont see an upside to them for the consumer.

[hot_potato]

I drive a Nissan Sentra, the manual mentions that the timing chain needs to be checked/replaced (don't remember which) at 160K. I don't recall if there was anything about an automatic tensioner.

[amorak]

The only time you need to replace the timing chain on the GM is if there has been some abnormal wear.

With that in mind, the 2.2L OHV engine EATS through tensioners...

[TrevorK]

Trevor, you seem pretty sharp. Any idea why the move to timing belts? How do they legitimize the additional maintenance expense and risk?
I really dont see an upside to them for the consumer.

Why thank you.

The reason I think(From a non-monetary perspective) is because a timing belt will hold accurate timing for it's ENTIRE life.

Whereas, as the chain (And the associated pullies/sprockets/etc...) wears, the timing becomes inaccurate.

So overall, the belt itself is a better technology, while the chain is longer lasting.

[stealth]

Thats what I was thinking too....But lets face it, the fact that it guarantees them additional service and parts revenue, isnt exactly a deterrent. How many people were changing timing chains before? Plus it was so much of an easier job. Pop off the timing chain cover, mark the gear position, pull the gears and chain....a pro could do it in an hour. To do a timing belt on my last car, I was looking at 10-12hrs fdealer service time (pretty much a weekend job if I did it myself). Sickening.

I wouldnt object to make the belt replacement part of the maintenance (i.e. a motor refresher) if there werent the fear of popping the motor if it snapped. I've known some people who've had that happen 20-30k after it had been changed.
Doesnt seem fair. Almost seems like the worst example of built-in obsolescence.

[TrevorK]

Thats what I was thinking too....But lets face it, the fact that it guarantees them additional service and parts revenue, isnt exactly a deterrent. How many people were changing timing chains before? Plus it was so much of an easier job. Pop off the timing chain cover, mark the gear position, pull the gears and chain....a pro could do it in an hour. To do a timing belt on my last car, I was looking at 10-12hrs fdealer service time (pretty much a weekend job if I did it myself). Sickening.

I wouldnt object to make the belt replacement part of the maintenance (i.e. a motor refresher) if there werent the fear of popping the motor if it snapped. I've known some people who've had that happen 20-30k after it had been changed.
Doesnt seem fair. Almost seems like the worst example of built-in obsolescence.

The belt replacement is usually difficult because of the location/positioning of the engine.

All you need to do to change just a timing belt (In basic terms) is to:
1) Rotate engine to proper position.
2) Remove tension on belt
3) Remove belt
4) Reattach belt
5) Tension properly
6) Test to make sure the belt didn't jump a tooth and it's still in the proper position

The reason it's hard is because the cars nowadays have the engine sideways (As opposed to the old days where the engine went front-back), and you have to remove a whack of accessories/mounts to get to it.

I've done timing belts in 15 minutes before - because the engine was sitting on the ground and everything was accessible, just like on the typical old V8's.

[bug]

I prefer chains to belts. I had the timing belt break twice on my last car, with only 128k on the motor.

[ah802]

Usually there is a chain tensioner that keeps the chain taunt. But as the chain gets older, wear can move the timing points ever so slightly, but enough to make the engine feel more tired. It's quite common for the chain to 'jump a tooth' and when that happens nothing works right.

[Antiloop]

chains never needs replacement ! only rubber belts do (every 100k approx)

I believe most if not all nissan uses chains on their cars.

[donaldtin]

seems like new cars r going back from timing belt to timing chain, i've just looked into the new corolla, it's chain again, same as mazda3.

according to toyota, belt needs to be replaced on the 96,000km service package, and the chain will be replaced on the 198,000km service.

the sales told me that the chain is more durable (of coz... -_-").. and chain will be a little bit noisier.

[weedb0y]

chain is the new thing..I don't know of any older car using chains..

belts were the cheap economy way for most japanese cars until now..

[TrevorK]

chain is the new thing..I don't know of any older car using chains..


Then you haven't been working for cars very long.

Chains are what they all used to use.

[blackhawk]

my old mazda van did 285,000 km with the origonal chain, dealer said leave it alone but for a belt they say every 100,000 but my protege went to 250,000 with the origonal belt before I changed it

[Audiogenic]

You never need to replace the chain.

[2000fordfocus]

OK, i didn't read the whole thread~ here goes,

I don't think it need to be change, my moms previous topaz has a timing chain, and it reach 160kms and still going strong... but life ended when a 4Runner rear ended the topaz bad~

[stangboy]

ok guys

here's my take on this...

a timing chain and a belt do not last forever. Yes, the timing chain is much durable and will go much further than a belt. The other thing you need to know is that should this mechanical piece snap it could damage the motor depending on the make of a vehicle, some motors are designed to tolerate a belt breaking.

I would probably service a timing belt at about 135,000 kms and a chain at about 200,000 kms

We did some extensive motor work on my 90 stang 2 years ago. (sold the car, friggin thing was a rocket and it sounded like one too) The car had about 125,000 kms on it. One of the mods was removing the cam shaft. We did notice that the timing chain was a bit stretched so we replaced it since we had it opened up. Mind you...should a timing chain snap on a stang, bye, bye to the motor. :mad: Believe me, this has happened to many people...these were not race cars. My buddies have all kinds of cars coming into there shop with broken belts and chains.

[stevethewheel]

chain is the new thing..I don't know of any older car using chains..

belts were the cheap economy way for most japanese cars until now..

hah. what's old is new again. I love it. When timing belts first came to popularity they were sold to us as all the rage, and it was inferior North American Car thinking to use chains. I wonder what is new and different about timing chains now vs. in the 80's that makes them soo good? Or were we really told a pile of crap when we were told they were so inferior?

Anyway, if you can confirm you have a timing chain (not belt) then you can relax for a long time about replacing it. That is probably why there is no specified interval in the service manual....chains can easily last 300,000 km+++ but after 200,000 or more it depends on how hard you are beating your beast whether you get 300 or 500,000 km.