My E-Test Saga

[Hurk]

I own a 1992 Honda Accord that was in decent shape, but it was kind of loud and unsafe. I took it to my mechanic and said I want this to be quieter and smoother, and I am also going for my Etest. He said, he will take a look at it and that he did. He told me what needs to be done which was; Tune up, Right Ball Joint, Front Brake Pads and Rotors, Rear Brakes serviced, and a new muffler (I Had a performance one on there). I told him to do it all and let me know. He did it, took it for a test drive and it was still loud but ran well. He said the center pipe of the muffler was the issue, I said replace it. He did, and this all cost me just over $1050.

The car is running better than ever, so I go get an etest. It failed. It failed on NO ppm, CO and HC ppm. This was disturbing because I had the same problem less than 2 years ago where I had to fork out $1200 for testing etc.

I took it back to my mechanic and he said it's got to be the catalytic converter. I advised him I got it replaced not even 2 years ago, he said he's 90% it's that. We replaced it, got it etested and it failed. It only failed on 2 things this time and the other numbers looked good. It failed on NO ppm and CO.

I took it back to my mechanics, and he looked around and said it's the O2 sensor, so we replace the O2 sensor and I got for an etest after using fuel injector cleaner on a 1/4 tank of gas going 160km an hour on the highway. It failed. It only failed on CO this time. I'm still pissed because I'm up to about $2000 on all this bullsht. I take it back to my mechanic, and he thinks it's a temp sensor for the engine and not the computer. He replaced that and I'm going for another etest on Friday.

My car runs better than ever, but won't pass a stupid etest. My friend just bought a 1998 ford Taurus for $1500 and it passed the first time. My ex girlfriend had a 1995 Cavalier and never did any maintenance on it, and it passed right on her birthday, no questions asked. My import is under crazy strict regulations for etest where domestic cars have it easy.

Just my story.. and I'm pissed, but if anyone has any ideas what it is, let me know. Thanks.

[wanna_be]

improving your chances to pass 2 things


Every time I have gone I have put at least 1 full tank of gas that is above regular grade.

The other thing is that vehicles will give off better results if they are warm. I take it for a drive for about 30 minutes before I take it for my scheduled test. The past few times I just book it for an early app after coming off my night shift. Takes about 50 minutes for me to drive home, so the vehicle engine and everything is still hot when they test it.


Keep in mind though that you still may have needed to get those parts anyway, but my 1996 astro has always passed as did my 91 Bonneville

[JAC]

My friend just bought a 1998 ford Taurus for $1500 and it passed the first time. My ex girlfriend had a 1995 Cavalier and never did any maintenance on it, and it passed right on her birthday, no questions asked. My import is under crazy strict regulations for etest where domestic cars have it easy.
Heh, anyone see another import vs domestic war in the making? :D

[Hurk]

Heh, anyone see another import vs domestic war in the making? :D

Nah, I love my import, but domestic cars pass alot easier because of their lenient standards.

[prof_frink]

How much did it cost to get the CAT replaced in your car.

I may need to replace it in my accord, and I have no idea how much that would cost. I'd like to replace the O2 sensors as well, but I'm wondering if I can do that myself - I wonder how hard that is...

[Rehan]

Did you know that there's a $450 repair cost limit (http://www.driveclean.com/help/faq_main.html#RCL)?

[Hurk]

How much did it cost to get the CAT replaced in your car.

I may need to replace it in my accord, and I have no idea how much that would cost. I'd like to replace the O2 sensors as well, but I'm wondering if I can do that myself - I wonder how hard that is...

I paid $260 for the CAT and $110 for the O2 sensor. My friend is the mechanic so prices are lower. I got my Cat replaced last year from a regular mech and it was about $460 with taxes and everything.

[The Shirker]

I heard not too long ago that the whole Drive Clean program might be scrapped. That would make me mad if I spent thousands of dollars trying to get my car to pass some arbitrary numbers. Especially when a fake pass is relatively easy to obtain. Hmmm... ;)

[prof_frink]

I paid $260 for the CAT and $110 for the O2 sensor. My friend is the mechanic so prices are lower. I got my Cat replaced last year from a regular mech and it was about $460 with taxes and everything.

Is your mechanic friend in London or the GTA?

[Hurk]

Did you know that there's a $450 repair cost limit (http://www.driveclean.com/help/faq_main.html#RCL)?

I am aware of the conditional pass, but if I want to sell my car, it is not valid.

My mechanic is in London.

I hope they scrap the etest BS. My car runs fine, and if it were a domestic car it would have easily passed already.

[gman]

Just in case, can the place that tests your car be the source of the problem?

[Hurk]

Just in case, can the place that tests your car be the source of the problem?

I've tried 2 different places so far. Going back to the first tomorrow.

[cozmo]

I'm surprised no one else has suggested this yet.

Take the car to a different mechanic or to a dealership. Ask them what's wrong with it/why it's not passing. Save yourself some money that way. Even if you just take it to someone else for their opinion,and don't get them to fix it, you haven't lost anything, you've just gained another perspective.

[Hurk]

I'm surprised no one else has suggested this yet.

Take the car to a different mechanic or to a dealership. Ask them what's wrong with it/why it's not passing. Save yourself some money that way. Even if you just take it to someone else for their opinion,and don't get them to fix it, you haven't lost anything, you've just gained another perspective.

Any large chain of mechanics (Midas, Mufflerman, Speedy) all charge for taking a look at it for ETest. It's $75 per hour. This happened to me less than 2 years ago aswell. They'll find out what the problem is eventually, but they will also not do anything to the car for that money. It's just labor. This way, I can get the things done for less than the labor... but I think I might bite the bullet and get someone to test it.

[phillbert]

Hope your car was properly warmed up before taking it to the testing station (i.e. Run it on the highway for 20 minutes or so) Your catalytic converter does not function until it is warmed up.

[sterdeus]

I heard not too long ago that the whole Drive Clean program might be scrapped. That would make me mad if I spent thousands of dollars trying to get my car to pass some arbitrary numbers. Especially when a fake pass is relatively easy to obtain. Hmmm... ;)

Thats interesting considering the Kyoto protocol just kicked in. I'm sure drive clean will be replaced with some other program of restrictions.

[sterdeus]

Every time I have gone I have put at least 1 full tank of gas that is above regular grade.


I dont believe this does anything to help. Your car is fine tuned to use the gas grade that is recommended in your hand book. Filling up with a tank of different grade, your car will "learn" the new grade and adapt to run more efficiently, but not usually at least until a few fill ups later.

[junglebass]

so u want to sell the car and just spend over 2k on it? HEH

i got my golf back in a day for lees then 1k, took it to crappy tire, fail..........

i was upset, didnt want to put any mula in the old machine, took it to just emisions place on warden around elsmire(sp) and PASSED!!!!

i think 94octane gas helps....

[frogger]

Nah, I love my import, but domestic cars pass alot easier because of their lenient standards.
Huh?

[Hurk]

Huh?

I found out this is incorrect. heh. I should have mentioned it.

[peterbrowne]

Thats interesting considering the Kyoto protocol just kicked in. I'm sure drive clean will be replaced with some other program of restrictions.
only other thing i can think of is a complete required overhaul of the emissions systems every 5 years with a emissions control tax. added on t make dalton and his fiberals some more money.

[Hurk]

Just incase anyone was curious.

This was done after a tune up from Midas back in 2003.


June 17th, 2003 -Failed

Driving test Idle Test
Limit Result Limit Result
HC ppm 71 53 200 41
CO% 0.40 0.76 100 0.05
NO ppm 537 192 N/A N/A
RPM 2517 Valid 702 Valid
Dilution 15.4 Valid 15.1 Valid


This was done after testing the car and spending $200 just on testing. They replaced the Catalytic converter.


June 24th, 2003 -Passed

Driving test Idle Test
Limit Result Limit Result
HC ppm 71 71 200 39
CO% 0.40 0.38 100 0.02
NO ppm 537 156 N/A N/A
RPM 2484 Valid 787 Valid
Dilution 15.17 Valid 15.02 Valid


This was done after a tune up, oil change, brakes, new muffler and center piece from my mechanic. (Other things were done aswell)


Feb 10th, 2005 - Failed (Mufflerman)

Driving test Idle Test
Limit Result Limit Result
HC ppm 62 83 200 57
CO% 0.35 1.63 100 0.02
NO ppm 0467 748 N/A N/A
RPM 1922 Valid 702 Valid
Dilution 14.94 Valid 15.02 Valid


This was done after replacing the Catalytic converter again.


Feb 11th, 2005 - Failed (GT Tires)

Driving test Idle Test
Limit Result Limit Result
HC ppm 62 84 200 57
CO% 0.35 0.81 100 0.10
NO ppm 0467 150 N/A N/A
RPM 1860 Valid 779 Valid
Dilution 15.2 Valid 13.9 Valid


This was done after replacing the O2 sensor and putting in concentrated fuel injector cleaner on 1/2 tank of gas and driving to Waterloo and back and putting in a full tank of regular gas. (Next day)


Feb 14th, 2005 - Failed (GT Tires)

Driving test Idle Test
Limit Result Limit Result
HC ppm 62 55 200 80
CO% 0.35 0.73 100 0.14
NO ppm 0467 92 N/A N/A
RPM 2450 Valid 763 Valid
Dilution 15.6 Valid 14.5 Valid


This is what was done so far.

[Talamasca]

Feb 14th, 2005 - Failed (GT Tires)

Driving test Idle Test
Limit Result Limit Result
HC ppm 62 55 200 80
CO% 0.35 0.73 100 0.14
NO ppm 0467 92 N/A N/A
RPM 2450 Valid 763 Valid
Dilution 15.6 Valid 14.5 Valid

I have a 2002 Honda Civic. I know it's a lot newer than yours and is a smaller car with a different engine but my readings from last month are so dramatically different from yours. Did Honda do some major improvements in their engine/emissions during the 90s?

D. Limit Result I. Limit Result
HC ppm 66 1 150 0
CO% 0.37 0.01 0.70 0
NO ppm 505 9 N/A N/A
RPM 1913 VALID 713 VALID
Dilution 15.2 VALID 15.5 VALID

[Hurk]

I have a 2002 Honda Civic. I know it's a lot newer than yours and is a smaller car with a different engine but my readings from last month are so dramatically different from yours. Did Honda do some major improvements in their engine/emissions during the 90s?

D. Limit Result I. Limit Result
HC ppm 66 1 150 0
CO% 0.37 0.01 0.70 0
NO ppm 505 9 N/A N/a
RPM 1913 VALID 713 VALID
Dilution 15.2 VALID 15.5 VALID


You are failing your CO% aswell?

[Talamasca]

No, I got a 0.01 reading when 0.37 was the driving limit and a 0.00 reading when 0.70 was the idle limit. I've tried to make the figures a little easier to read.

[DragonZealot]

Hurk:
Your HC is way too high even after the O2 sensor. You have to fix HC first. CO will always be high if HC is high.

Misfire is the most common cause of high HC. Since driving HC is better than idel HC it is suspective that the distributor may be causing the trouble.

I assume in the tune up the spark plugs are all replaced. You should also inspect/clean or replace the distributor cap. Also check the condition of the high tension wires.

You should also do a scope test to make sure that all the cylinders are firing correctly. Also check timing to make sure they are not ********. All these causes misfiring --> high HC.

Most shops nowadays are reluctant to do proper diagnosis. They just kept changing parts cause they make more money this way. Too bad.

[Hurk]

Hurk:
Your HC is way too high even after the O2 sensor. You have to fix HC first. CO will always be high if HC is high.

Misfire is the most common cause of high HC. Since driving HC is better than idel HC it is suspective that the distributor may be causing the trouble.

I assume in the tune up the spark plugs are all replaced. You should also inspect/clean or replace the distributor cap. Also check the condition of the high tension wires.

You should also do a scope test to make sure that all the cylinders are firing correctly. Also check timing to make sure they are not ********. All these causes misfiring --> high HC.

Most shops nowadays are reluctant to do proper diagnosis. They just kept changing parts cause they make more money this way. Too bad.

Thanks for your response. That's actually the most logical answer I've heard yet.. and you haven't even looked at my car.

Thank you. I'll let you know.

[crazdefool]

my 1993 ford escort with 550,000 km failed. had a cracked vacuum hose. cost of repair $1

mechanics estimate: new o2 sensor, new cat, etc

[Hurk]

my 1993 ford escort with 550,000 km failed. had a cracked vacuum hose. cost of repair $1

mechanics estimate: new o2 sensor, new cat, etc

Failed a 4th time... I'm biting the bullet and going to a Etest specialist to test it out.

[robz]

e-tests are a PITA,... I am going through this right now,...
I just haven't done the work, but I need to and,... oh boy,...
I would rather save the coin but,...

robz

[v00d00]

I don't get why anyone would fix their vehicle BEFORE doing the E-Test.. makes no sense.

[OnTheVerge]

I agree with warming up the car, but if you have to wait for the next e-test, then the car has cooled down.

For example, Can. Tire does not take appointments so if there are 3 other e-tests ahead of you, your car may be sitting and cooling down for 1hour plus.

I'd still do it, but just so that others know, this may be a waste of time.

Hope your car was properly warmed up before taking it to the testing station (i.e. Run it on the highway for 20 minutes or so) Your catalytic converter does not function until it is warmed up.

[Iron Chef Ajax]

Damn. Sorry to hear about all your problems. Taking my 2002 olds for a E-Test this week hope it passes.

[Chookman]

I agree with warming up the car, but if you have to wait for the next e-test, then the car has cooled down.

For example, Can. Tire does not take appointments so if there are 3 other e-tests ahead of you, your car may be sitting and cooling down for 1hour plus.

I'd still do it, but just so that others know, this may be a waste of time.


Warming up the car makes a big difference. In London, Mufflerman at Wharncliffe and Baseline is great for this. The last two years, they took me in immediately after a 20 minute run on the highway in 3rd gear (Supposedly running the car in high revs helps burn out the carbon.). Here are my last 3 results.


July 2002

This was from the car sitting cold for 24 hours and driven 1 KM to the testing station.
LIMIT | READING | LIMIT | READING
HC 93 | 90 | 200 | 77
CO .52 | .09 | 1 | .04
NO 1046 | 46 |


May 2003

This was after a 20 minute run on the highway - testing occured immediately after driving in.
LIMIT | READING | LIMIT | READING
HC 82 | 17 | 200 | 17
CO .46 | .01 | 1 | .02
NO 948 | 493 |


June 2005

This was after a 20 minute run on the highway - testing occured immediately after driving in.
LIMIT | READING | LIMIT | READING
HC 72 | 35 | 200 | 31
CO .40 | .04 | 1 | .03
NO 948 | 493 |

A couple things to notice are that they are consistently lowering the limit while the car is getting older and that NOppm numbers will increase as HC numbers decrease. I've been told that this is because as HC's are processed, they release more NOppm. If the Cat isn't warm, supposedly more HC's will slip by which happened in my first test when I drove the car in cold.