Learning to drive stick

[t_ginuwine]

I have a basic understanding, from reading www.standardshift.com but I want to put it to practical exercise. Is there a driving school that teach u how to drive manual transmission?

[danfromwaterloo]

lol...I went through the same thing. Yes there are driving schools out there that specialize in manual transmission training. Its like 100 bucks for a one-day course.

This, however, is not the typical way of learning. You need to get a friend to teach you. When I bought my car, I got it in stick, and I'd never driven it before (it was way cheaper). It took me about three weeks to a month to really have it down to second nature. It only took me a week though to actually be able to do it. Some people can do it in an hour. Some can never learn, but those are the VERY few minority.

Enjoy! Stickshift rocks!

[NLI10D]

can anyone name a specific driving school in toronto/mississauga? i'm interested too

[gman]

lol...I went through the same thing. Yes there are driving schools out there that specialize in manual transmission training. Its like 100 bucks for a one-day course.

This, however, is not the typical way of learning. You need to get a friend to teach you. When I bought my car, I got it in stick, and I'd never driven it before (it was way cheaper). It took me about three weeks to a month to really have it down to second nature. It only took me a week though to actually be able to do it. Some people can do it in an hour. Some can never learn, but those are the VERY few minority.

Enjoy! Stickshift rocks!

Have fun to do a uphill left turn. :)

I did not go to any school. My first left turn took me at least 2 lights. Fortunately, people were nice back then and I did not see any middle fingers. :)

[bluetroll]

just get a friend to teach.... its not actually that difficult once figure out the basics.

[Talamasca]

I'm interested in learning to drive stick too as an automatic transmission can easily add $1,000+ to the cost of the car plus you save on gas mileage. Then I think of how often I would need to shift while stuck in traffic on the 401. :(

[gman]

Then I think of how often I would need to shift while stuck in traffic on the 401. :(

Just let it roll (assuming it is not uphill). :)

[warpdrive]

There are lots of driving schools that offer by-the-hour lessons. Just call them up one by one. They can vary from say $40 to $60 an hour.

If you can't practice with a friend's car.....usually one can learn enough with a two hour lesson to understand the basics, and enough to get the car from place to place.

That's how I learned. I didn't have a practice car so I took a two hour lesson. And then I was good enough to get my brand new manual transmission car home from the dealer. The rest of that after that was practice.

[gman]

This was how I did that. I knew next to nothing for driving stick. I bought the car first. My friend drove the 'used' car back with me from the seller. Then, the lesson began.

Yeah! I always did thing in reverse. I bought my first car before I got my driving licence. ;)

[afong56]

similar story here. i was hell bent to buy a car, and it happened to be a stick. so, a friend with a really old vw let me drive his around for two or three sessions (about 15 mins each). then i had him drive my car home for me. once the car was in my possession, i went out for two half hour practice sessions on my own.

fifteen years later, i'm still loving standard transmissions. i encourage everyone to drive a stick. way more fun.

[plucky duck]

Similar situation here. Had a guy teach me on an empty road a couple of times, but for the life of me I didn't know what the hell I was doing. But I was dead set on getting a stick (don't ask why, save for another thread) and ended up getting a Prelude. I was still shaking as I took the car off the lot. Amazingly driving home from the lot I only stalled once. Did some practice learning along the way when I was car shopping.

The scariest thing at first is stalling and stalling while making a left turn onto oncoming vehicles.

[Rehan]

fifteen years later, i'm still loving standard transmissions. i encourage everyone to drive a stick. way more fun.
You missed a few a's. It's waaaaaaaay more fun.

[Kinki]

My first experience on a stick was for about 10min. To be honest I was scared... haha i kept jumping and stalling.

[canabiz]

Ditto, i'd love to learn how to drive stick shift as well, one of the lifelong skillset that will be handy for the rest of our life i guess :)

Now i'd love to learn it more than ever because i'm looking to purchase a used car and almost if not all manual cars are way cheaper than their automatic counterparts and i have a budget.

Btw, when you go see a used car is there anything we should pay particular attention to when it comes to manual car as opposed to an automatic one. Thanks

[Grenamier]

http://www.shifters.ca/

Works out of the Toronto area and they're really good. The lessons feel short, but you're driving practically in no time.

[rc51]

I'm interested in learning to drive stick too as an automatic transmission can easily add $1,000+ to the cost of the car plus you save on gas mileage. Then I think of how often I would need to shift while stuck in traffic on the 401. :(


There really isn't much of a gap anymore with respect to mileage numbers btwn auto and manual transmissions. They are very close and in some cases pretty much equal.

Don't forget the cost of the cluth itself... depending on who drives this car and how they drive it... you could be replacing a clutch within 100,000k's...

And you're right...although manual transmissions CAN be fun... in traffic they can be a real pain, traffic takes all the fun out of them..after awhile the novelty will wear off.... (I guess I've been driving too long, almost 20 years) :)

[D-3vil]

Btw, when you go see a used car is there anything we should pay particular attention to when it comes to manual car as opposed to an automatic one. Thanks

Well, other than the things you'd look at for an automatic car, gotta know the shape the clutch is in (as replacing the clutch will run you around $400-600) and the overall condition of the transmission. Especially look at how smooth it shifts. Gear grinding in between shifts is not a good thing and may be due to synchro wear (among other things).

Driving stick is fun, but you definitely need to know how to do it. Moreso if you're in a major town, as drivers tend to be more impatient and are more likely to cause roadrage around you.

One final note regarding maintenance costs for a standard transmission car. If you have a heavy foot and don't really care much about clutch wear, expect to replace it every 2-4 years. That can really bite into your savings.

[rc51]

Have fun to do a uphill left turn. :)

:)


Think that's tricky...try a left hand turn uphill on a BIKE!!! :)

That's real treat when you're a beginner rider...trying to keep the bike upright, not roll backwards, and actually be able to launch.

You will be using both hands, both sets of fingers (cluth and front brake), one foot for balance, one foot on rear brake :D

[t_ginuwine]

I have a couple of questions, say you make the car stall couple of times, will it really f**k up the car?

I'm thinking of renting a manual car and taking my buddy and learning that way, lot cheaper and more time to learn :)

[gman]

I have a couple of questions, say you make the car stall couple of times, will it really f**k up the car?


Nope. 200 times, may be. couple of times, no.

[gman]

There really isn't much of a gap anymore with respect to mileage numbers btwn auto and manual transmissions. They are very close and in some cases pretty much equal.


No, the manual is way better because you can roll (neutral) most of the time (in city driving). I know because I happened to have 2 identical model of car and the difference was just the transmission. The auto transmission (you usually don't shift to neutral) took way more gas. Also, the auto transmission usually does not have 5th gear.

[Grenamier]

I have a couple of questions, say you make the car stall couple of times, will it really f**k up the car?

I'm thinking of renting a manual car and taking my buddy and learning that way, lot cheaper and more time to learn :)

After I learned to drive stick, I was itching to practice but the only place I could find that would rent me a stick shift (besides a sports car, with massive insurance charges), was a hole in the wall place on Wolfedale that lent me a rusty '92 Hyundai Excel that had a maximum of 80 hp back when it was new...

Even so, it was surprising zippy with the stick and a lot of fun. I don't think it had power steering.

[Rehan]

Info for rental and lessons in GTA:
http://forums.redflagdeals.com/showthread.php?t=107882

[Grenamier]

My first experience on a stick was for about 10min. To be honest I was scared... haha i kept jumping and stalling.

My very first experience was in the cab of a big rig. :) As part of my job, I oversee tractor-trailers that are contracted to our plant. About two-and-a-half years ago, our driver was soon to be leaving for another job and he asked me if I wanted to try driving his truck (please note, it was a truck rented by his company - no O/O would ever suggest such a thing). I said "Sure!"

At the time I had no idea how stick shifts worked or how different they are with diesels. I was going to attempt to drive a standard transmission tractor, with a trailer attached and mostly without using the clutch (which is necessary for lower gears and easier to do with a big diesel).

It didn't go so well. I stalled it over and over, barely got it into first gear, crept around a circle on our property and almost took out a skid on the ground with the trailer...it was a while before I tried standards again with a car...

[actng]

No, the manual is way better because you can roll (neutral) most of the time (in city driving). I know because I happened to have 2 identical model of car and the difference was just the transmission. The auto transmission (you usually don't shift to neutral) took way more gas. Also, the auto transmission usually does not have 5th gear.


It depends on the car. Some new cars use more gas in neutral than in gear (edit) when coming to a stop (/edit). I remember this from Top Gear a few episodes ago. Something about the car using more gas to keep the engine at idle as opposed to dying which it does automatically from being in gear.

[Rehan]

I learned by driving for a couple of hours in an empty parking lot late one evening in Ottawa...and then I drove to Toronto the next day. :eek: (Okay, okay...so there's no trick to driving a stick on a highway... :D )

[actng]

as for learning manual, I would like to share this one tidbit.

I believe it's more "learning manual on a particular car" than learning manual period.

Each car ('s clutch) is different and it takes about many a week to get used to for "performance" driving. It'll take about an hour to get used to the friction point so you don't stall everytime.

Once you know the theory behind manual transmission, you know it forever, but it'll still take time to get used to the car.

I learned manual transmission many years ago. I was ready to go onto the main streets of Hong Kong within the hour. Then after getting my license, I haven't driven manual for years until I bought my own car a few years ago. And I stalled three times between picking up the car to the first traffic light.

The other thing to learn on the car is how to get the car started again quickly. Some cars you have to turn the ignition all the way off before you can start it again. I was sitting there holding up traffic for 30 seconds trying to figure out how the car won't start.

[jed]

It depends on the car. Some new cars use more gas in neutral than in gear (edit) when coming to a stop (/edit). I remember this from Top Gear a few episodes ago. Something about the car using more gas to keep the engine at idle as opposed to dying which it does automatically from being in gear.


It depends mostly on gear ratios in both the transmission and the final drive, plus the driver him/herself. You sometimes see a car with a much slower final drive ratio along with a close ratio tranny, and the car is doing more work in city driving and revving higher on the highway. More fuel.

So, YMMV in this situation. You cannot generalize and say Sticks cost less to operate" because it isn't accurate. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't.

Especially with domestics, they are more automatic-friendly. And again, with domestic cars, you pay more for an auto but you get more for it used too. More people can drive an automatic car than a standard one, hence the better value (IMHO).

[actng]

Ya I agree it totally depends. I actually had to pay more for manual transmission cause it was rare in the used market and I was fixed on a stick. It's all about the timing.

It depends mostly on gear ratios in both the transmission and the final drive, plus the driver him/herself. You sometimes see a car with a much slower final drive ratio along with a close ratio tranny, and the car is doing more work in city driving and revving higher on the highway. More fuel.

So, YMMV in this situation. You cannot generalize and say Sticks cost less to operate" because it isn't accurate. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't.

Especially with domestics, they are more automatic-friendly. And again, with domestic cars, you pay more for an auto but you get more for it used too. More people can drive an automatic car than a standard one, hence the better value (IMHO).

[warpdrive]

For most average people, the advantage of manual barely manifests itself in any noticeable performance or mileage difference.

All I do know is, I really dislike automatics. Manual feels more direct, when you press the gas, the revs build up at the same rate as the speed...there is no torque convertor that makes the tranmission feel laggy.

[Thimble]

if you were to accelerate like you were driving an auto, then you might notice a difference in mileage...

however, because its more fun to drive stick, its really really difficult to hold back. ;)

i second the friend idea. however, its important to get a decent teacher. my dad was terrible (he hadn't driven stick in years). my buddy was an ace, though.

[LeeBear]

In regards to fuel effeciency, all else being equal a manual should be more efficient. Reasons being with most standard transmission you get an extra gear (5 instead of 4, or 6 instead of 5) compared to an automatic. This allows the driver to keep the car running in it's optimal power range more of the time. Also automatic transmission tend to be heavier which doesn't help with efficiency either.

Regarding the best way to learn to drive a standard. I think it varies with the person. For me I found I learned the most practicing by myself. I had my uncle teach me the basics, but I never really got the hang of it. Then one night, late at night when there was nobody on the road I decided to just go out myself and drive, and like after a few minutes everything just fell into place. It's hard to describe but I'm sure everyone who knows how to drive a stick will tell you, there's that moment when everything just falls into place and you don't even think about shifting anymore, it becomes more of a reflex. That's when you know you've figured it out. And once you figure it out you can pretty much drive any car. Course the clutch will feel different from car to car but the principles are the same. One last thing I don't think anyone has mentioned, but when I learned to drive a stick my car's clutch was cable driven. Then I had a chance to drive my friends car which had hydraulic assisted clutch and it was way easier to drive (more forgiving).

-LeeBear

[Beradon]

In this day and age, using the clutch to engage a gear is archaic to say the least.
Check out Audi's DSG (http://automobilemag.com/reviews/0305_audiTT/), this should be the future replacement for manual tranny's.

[warpdrive]

In this day and age, using the clutch to engage a gear is archaic to say the least.
Check out Audi's DSG (http://automobilemag.com/reviews/0305_audiTT/), this should be the future replacement for manual tranny's.

Archaic, but still simpler mechanically and more fun.

The BMW M3 comes with either a very effective SMG or six speed manual. Lots of people (as well as many high calibre drivers or reviewers) still choose (and prefer) the six speed manual when they write the cheque for a new M3

[relativity]

No, the manual is way better because you can roll (neutral) most of the time (in city driving). I know because I happened to have 2 identical model of car and the difference was just the transmission. The auto transmission (you usually don't shift to neutral) took way more gas. Also, the auto transmission usually does not have 5th gear.

Also, the actual effiency of an Automatic is around 85% in the BEST case these days. A Manual is around 95% on average.

By effiency I mean how much power from the crankshaft is transferred out of the transmission. 200 HP car with 85% will yield 170.

I think it's mostly because of the loss due to the torque converter.

[relativity]

It depends on the car. Some new cars use more gas in neutral than in gear (edit) when coming to a stop (/edit). I remember this from Top Gear a few episodes ago. Something about the car using more gas to keep the engine at idle as opposed to dying which it does automatically from being in gear.

lol ya that was the one with him driving the Twin Turbo Diesel Audi A8 500 miles on a tank of gas. I think they also did the Exige vs the Apache Helicopter that episode.

I love Top Gear!!

[plucky duck]

It's not a matter ot technology advancement and the foot clutch being archaic, it's the feeling you get out of it. For the same price if you ask if I prefer the foot clutch or the steering wheel paddle clutch I'd still choose the foot clutch, even if it costs $1000 more.

As for mileage, that depends on how heavy footed you are. If you revv it up all the time then you're obviously wasting more gas than an auto.

[cliff]

just remember to be smooth with the clutch, no need to drop it until you are used to the engagement point.

For starting up hills use the handbrake if it's console mounted. Put the car in 1st with the clutch in, release the handbrake slowly while letting the clutch out slowly. As the car begins to move release the handbrake completely.

I still need to learn how to shift into gear without the clutch - can I borrow someones car?

[jed]

Also, the actual effiency of an Automatic is around 85% in the BEST case these days. A Manual is around 95% on average.

By effiency I mean how much power from the crankshaft is transferred out of the transmission. 200 HP car with 85% will yield 170.

I think it's mostly because of the loss due to the torque converter.

True, but there is an efficiency gained with the auto in stop and go traffic from the TC on launch. Hence the old powerglides being used in drag racing.

Potato, potAto. Point of the thread was to learn to drive stick - I think everyone should know how to drive one, even if you don't have one.

[Beradon]

It's not a matter ot technology advancement and the foot clutch being archaic, it's the feeling you get out of it. For the same price if you ask if I prefer the foot clutch or the steering wheel paddle clutch I'd still choose the foot clutch, even if it costs $1000 more. I guess it comes down to personal preference. I know some days I just couldn't care much for shifting especially when you're stuck in traffic. Plus when there are times I don't feel like driving but my gf can't drive manual this is where the benefits of having a Manumatic tranny comes in.

As long as it gives me the same performance of a manual but the convenience of an automatic, I'm all for it. One thing's for sure, future Ferrari owners won't have a choice as it looks like all the new models are clutchless systems. :)

[motorcycleguy]

Think that's tricky...try a left hand turn uphill on a BIKE!!! :)

That's real treat when you're a beginner rider...trying to keep the bike upright, not roll backwards, and actually be able to launch.

You will be using both hands, both sets of fingers (cluth and front brake), one foot for balance, one foot on rear brake :D

:cheesygri
I remember after 3 weeks of riding I stopped at a red light on a VERY steep hill. It took me 2-3 mintutes of constant swearing to figure out how to do get my bike going. I was sooo embarrassed! Cars behind me wouldn't stop honking. I went back the night after at 3 am and practiced for about 10 minutes untill I was comfortable.
I shake my head every time I remember that.

[Crazykaka]

Info for rental and lessons in GTA:
http://forums.redflagdeals.com/showthread.php?t=107882

Man,

This is great! Thanks for the info. I think I'm going to rent me a Mazda Miata.

I just wonder if I'll be able to fit in it. Not that I'm a giant or anything, but I have found it difficult to drive small cars. Like that tall guy in the simpsons who pulls down nelsons pants. yeah I'm making no sense.

The point of the story kids - don't do crack! :razz:

but this is a great thread. boo yeah. owning a 2005 stick stang just got closer

[warpdrive]

Plus when there are times I don't feel like driving but my gf can't drive manual this is where the benefits of having a Manumatic

Don't feel like driving??? That's crazy talk.

[gman]

Don't feel like driving??? That's crazy talk.

e.g. when you are drunk or sick.

[alkaseltzer01]

just quoting my dad

"you don't really learn to drive until you learn to drive manual"....

Also a quote from a friend:

"the biggest oxy-moron if I ever heard one, automatic sports car..."

[Rehan]

I just wonder if I'll be able to fit in it. Not that I'm a giant or anything, but I have found it difficult to drive small cars. Like that tall guy in the simpsons who pulls down nelsons pants. yeah I'm making no sense.
Hehe. "Everyone needs to drive a vehicle, even the very tall." :)

There's an interesting article on legroom here (http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2004-01-14-tootall_x.htm). According to the numbers, even a Hyundai Accent has more front legroom than a Crown Victoria or an Excursion. The Miata (42.8 in.) and Mustang (42.7 in.) are in the same ballpark.

[relativity]

One thing's for sure, future Ferrari owners won't have a choice as it looks like all the new models are clutchless systems. :)

Actually a lot of the Ferrari's with the paddle shifting system have a double clutch system. Im sure you were referring to the clutch pedal itself in your post.

I hope I'm right about this info, this is mostly hearsay, in a double clutch system ( not the same as double clutching for rev matching ), you have two clutches. All the odd gears are on one clutch, and the even ones are on another.

When your'e in first gear, the first clutch is active, and gear 2 is active for the second clutch but that's inactive. When you switch from first to second, the car will simply disengage the first clutch and engage the second clutch.

I'm really not sure how these cars handle downshifts, perhaps it's predictive ( revving down, so make the lower gear on the other clutch active ).

[LeeBear]

Relativity you are basically correct about the Ferrari's transmission. It does use a double clutch system. It's basically a manual transmission but the actual shifting is done automatically by the computer when you press the paddles. Having a third pedal or how the car shifts it's gear doesn't really determine if it's a manual or automatic transmission imo.

You can't really compare the F1 sequential shifter on a Ferrari to the more conventional Tiptronic (manumatics) you see in more conventional cars. The Ferrari is more like a conventional manual transmission car, except instead of having to push in the clutch pedal and shift the stick, engage the clutch plates, etc a computer does it for you. There really is no drawback to this system nowadays because the shifting is done so fast (150 ms on the Ferrari) and even has advantages like the driver doesn't have to take his hands off the steering wheel. You still have to press the paddles to up shift the gears, the computer won't automatically shift when a certain rpm is reached. You still have to press the paddles to downshift, except the computer handles the blipping to match rpms and stabilizes the car.

With the more conventional Tiptronic (manumatics) on more conventional cars, it's basically an automatic transmission with the ability to force a gear change. You still have all the drawbacks of an automatic transmission (*cough* torque converter), non-instantaneous shifts, etc. It does have an advantage over regular automatics in that if you're going up a hill and you don't think the cars in the proper gear you can force a downshift.

-LeeBear

[Beradon]

Actually a lot of the Ferrari's with the paddle shifting system have a double clutch system. Im sure you were referring to the clutch pedal itself in your post.oops! you're right. I made the wrong choice of words. I was referring to the pedal-less clutch.


LeeBear

You can't really compare the F1 sequential shifter on a Ferrari to the more conventional Tiptronic (manumatics) you see in more conventional cars.
With the more conventional Tiptronic (manumatics) on more conventional cars, it's basically an automatic transmission with the ability to force a gear change.thankfully, Audi's DSG is the only conventional system available that's similiar to Ferrari's sequential shifting tranmission. It also uses dual clutches and its onboard computer predicts your next gear selection. I hope the other car manufacturers will catch on and produce similar sequential shifting tranmissions.

[warpdrive]

oops! you're right. I made the wrong choice of words. I was referring to the pedal-less clutch.


LeeBear

thankfully, Audi's DSG is the only conventional system available that's similiar to Ferrari's sequential shifting tranmission. It also uses dual clutches and its onboard computer predicts your next gear selection. I hope the other car manufacturers will catch on and produce similar sequential shifting tranmissions.

The problem with it is it can still be fooled. It preselects the gear it thinks you will choose.

BMW's SMG (http://www.canadiandriver.com/testdrives/02m3_smg.htm) or Toyota's system doesn't use double clutch, but is just as effective.

Thankfully, a well driven foot clutch is still more fun.

[SUPERMAN-01]

i first learned by watching Inital D. funny but thats how i really did ha.
but when i first actully drove it. i did pretty good.
got into 2nd gear and didnt stall.
:D

[MacGyver]

I learned how to drive stick this fall through http://www.proshift.ca - one 90 minute lesson was enough for me to get the basics down (other people will probably need more than one lesson). The best $50 I ever spent. Highly recommended to anyone in the Ottawa area!

[lolibra]

Oh someone merged it. N?M :P

[P90Puma]

took me maybe 30 min total to learn, 3-4 trips in the colt. And when i had to drive a turbo laser a week or two later i didnt stall once. None of the harder stuff yet as my car isnt plated. No uphill, etc. Managed to launch the laser fine though :) (WHOOAAAAA - me and my passenger + lots of tire smoke)

[jetrider]

learning to drive a manual shouldn't cost a lot. try shift nation, they charge $60 for a lesson and they guarantee you can learn everything in 2 hours.
www.shiftnation.ca :)

[lolaleelolo]

I learned how to drive stick this fall through http://www.proshift.ca - one 90 minute lesson was enough for me to get the basics down (other people will probably need more than one lesson). The best $50 I ever spent. Highly recommended to anyone in the Ottawa area!

yes! another vote for proshift.ca for anyone in the ottawa area. JC rocks! i have to say, though, that i needed more than 1 lesson to get myself comfortable because i started from scratch (*cough* 5 lessons needed here *cough*)...but it was so worth it. when i started i was like 'tachometer whats that?' :lol:

[GangStarr]

I just recently learned how to drive stick.

I think the best way to learn is to go to an empty parking lot, and engage 1st gear without using the gas. The trick to driving stick is the gentle release of the clutch. You can infact get your car moving just by very gentily releasing the clutch. Once people get the feel of getting in first gear with no gas they understand when the actual gear engages. Using gas just makes the process easier after that imho.

Also with uphills, Just throw up the hand brake and when you feel the gear engage release it quickly.

my two cents

[ezbst]

buy your first car at an auction then be forced to drive it home right away from milton to toronto in various traffic conditions having never driven stick before.

well, at least that's how i popped my cherry. :D

[CH40Z_008]

;) backhome--- from my experienced when i was in grade school i used to play around inside our car and play with the shiftstick putting the gear from 1-5 and reverse with stepping on the clutch. then when i turned 14 i used to drive our car back and forth into the garage. time goes on as soon as i hit the age of 15 i tried driving in the field w/ a company beside me then i get used to it after that i go straight down to the road... thats why for me its not too hard to drive shiftstick and learned it easily...
to make your driving straight in the road just look far ahead and look on the center line not just in front of your car :D


1 3 5
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for me driving uphill with in a traffic i used to mixed clutch and gas but if i think the traffic will take so long i'll put the car in neutral and used the hand break... then if its time to go put my foot on the clutch and put the first gear followed by the gas and take the hand break out... then zoooooommmmmmmm

[LBJackal]

I got a job with the City of Brampton this past summer and had to drive a stick shift John Deere Gator. No training whatsoever - they said just drive it around for a while and you'll learn it eventually. I had no clue what the hell to do, but at the end of the day I could at least get it to do what I wanted. Stalling though... yeah, that continued for a while. I'm about to buy a car and am contemplating getting a standard. The fact that it's cheaper will probably lean me towards it I suppose.

[twboy1999]

if anyone know wher u can rent manual cars
please post

[Crazykaka]

I found a place that had a Manual Escort for rent. the thing was a piece of crap, but did the job.

Cheap Wheels for rent was the name.
http://www.wheels4rent.ca/

North York Location Had it if I'm not mistaken

[flyinggonzo]

Also, the actual effiency of an Automatic is around 85% in the BEST case these days. A Manual is around 95% on average.

By effiency I mean how much power from the crankshaft is transferred out of the transmission. 200 HP car with 85% will yield 170.

I think it's mostly because of the loss due to the torque converter.

Do you have a source for this information? I think it may be outdated.

In Mercedes most recent generation of cars, the quoted 0-60 times and fuel economy ratings are actually better for their automatic cars (but, this may be due to gearing).

[Andro]

learning to drive a manual shouldn't cost a lot. try shift nation, they charge $60 for a lesson and they guarantee you can learn everything in 2 hours.
www.shiftnation.ca :)

thx for that link, helps alot :D

[twboy1999]

anyone tryied shift nation?

[jetrider]

Shift Nation seems to be a better deal. For 60 bucks, they guarantee you can learn everything in two hours. There are no other driving schools offering that. check out www.shiftnation.ca :)

[stixxx]

The cars sounds good...http://www.shiftnation.ca/about.html but anone tried them before beacuse shifter has been around for years but if shift nation is just as good..I am in ;)

[Sinical]

I have tried emailing and calling Shift Nation and I have never recieved a response ...

It makes me think it is just some guy in his car teaching you to drive than a real business ... :confused:

[nopn]

I have tried emailing and calling Shift Nation and I have never recieved a response ...

It makes me think it is just some guy in his car teaching you to drive than a real business ... :confused:

I think they(actaully he/she) is a one person business.
I found they have cell phone contact number (647)XXX-XXXX instead of the regular phone number (416) for scarborough. and no office address????

:confused: :confused: :confused:

[Player1]

I also tried sending an email with a lot of questions and this is the response that I got:

Thank you for your interest in Shift Nation.

We offer lessons in the Scarborough area. So if it is convenient for you to come to Scarborough to take the lesson, you can just call 647-402-5883 to schedule a time.

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask.

Thanks,
Lee
Shift Nation


This is the reply to the email I sent with 6 very specific questions ... I don't get it. Then he says that they are only in the Scarborough area whereas on the website they specify anywhere in Toronto ... I also tried to call the number and it is a cell phone with no voice mail ... very unprofessional

I think I will stay away from a Mickey Mouse business like this and pay a few extra dollars to Shifters ... at least they have an office and I see their cars around .......

[stixxx]

No wonder shitfnation being half the price...buh I am in Scar...so might call him up in a few days and see how it goes.

[twboy1999]

I also tried sending an email with a lot of questions and this is the response that I got:



This is the reply to the email I sent with 6 very specific questions ... I don't get it. Then he says that they are only in the Scarborough area whereas on the website they specify anywhere in Toronto ... I also tried to call the number and it is a cell phone with no voice mail ... very unprofessional

I think I will stay away from a Mickey Mouse business like this and pay a few extra dollars to Shifters ... at least they have an office and I see their cars around .......


what Shifters? site?

[stixxx]

http://www.shifters.ca/training.htm

[nopn]

I found a place that had a Manual Escort for rent. the thing was a piece of crap, but did the job.

Cheap Wheels for rent was the name.
http://www.wheels4rent.ca/

North York Location Had it if I'm not mistaken


I have tried this one, but they dont have any manual car.
Does any rfds know any place in GTA can rent a manual shift car ?? :twisted:

[shawn99]

you can rent mines for 40bucks/hour, I can give u a lession for an extra 10 bucks. You'll learn it in no time!

[nopn]

you can rent mines for 40bucks/hour, I can give u a lession for an extra 10 bucks. You'll learn it in no time!

Shiftnation is SUCK.

[Crazykaka]

I have tried this one, but they dont have any manual car.
Does any rfds know any place in GTA can rent a manual shift car ?? :twisted:


I wouldn't be mistaken if the car fell apart on them. The hood was kept down with wire.

I found them by call ing all the Car rental places and asking if they had manual cars.

Another option would be to contact an Exotics rental place. Most exotic cars only come in Manual shift. Granted you'll pay $125+ for a one evening rental, but I'm told that when gears grind on an exotic, it sounds like children unicorns down a hallway. Plus when you finally learn, nothing sweeter than cruising the streets in an exotic.

[suupaa]

I also tried sending an email with a lot of questions and this is the response that I got:



This is the reply to the email I sent with 6 very specific questions ... I don't get it. Then he says that they are only in the Scarborough area whereas on the website they specify anywhere in Toronto ... I also tried to call the number and it is a cell phone with no voice mail ... very unprofessional

I think I will stay away from a Mickey Mouse business like this and pay a few extra dollars to Shifters ... at least they have an office and I see their cars around .......

I took a lesson with Shift Nation www.shiftnation.ca last week and I am very satisfied with his lesson. They advertised that anyone can learn all skills within 2 hours, and believe it or not, it only took me 1.5 hour to get used to everything in his civic. He even offered me to pay only $50 because of the shortened lesson, but I just stick with the $60 for the quality of the service.



:) :) :)

[nalgene]

I also tried sending an email with a lot of questions and this is the response that I got:



This is the reply to the email I sent with 6 very specific questions ... I don't get it. Then he says that they are only in the Scarborough area whereas on the website they specify anywhere in Toronto ... I also tried to call the number and it is a cell phone with no voice mail ... very unprofessional

I think I will stay away from a Mickey Mouse business like this and pay a few extra dollars to Shifters ... at least they have an office and I see their cars around .......


Of coz you can spend your money whatever way you want. But I would say Shift Nation really did a good job. I could learn all skills within 2 hours and I got the most out of my 60 bucks. I guess the teaching location just depends on their schedule. I live in mississauga and I don't mind the 20 min drive to Richmond Hill for the lesson. If they provide good service, who cares if they have an office or not.

:cheesygri

[nopn]

Newbie, Are you the shift nation guy ? Advertising ? :twisted:
Your ads is so gay. :confused: :D

[twboy1999]

Newbie, Are you the shift nation guy ? Advertising ? :twisted:
I know you man. Of course, You did a good job teaching people.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[lofidelity]

I paid my $60 for a ShiftNation lesson a month ago, and it did a pretty good job of teaching me the basics of driving manual. Most of the real learning takes place when you're sitting in your own car anyway, and ShiftNation did a good job of introducing the basics. The only complaint is that the lesson took place in a parking lot and I didn't get any real road experience.

[twboy1999]

I paid my $60 for a ShiftNation lesson a month ago, and it did a pretty good job of teaching me the basics of driving manual. Most of the real learning takes place when you're sitting in your own car anyway, and ShiftNation did a good job of introducing the basics. The only complaint is that the lesson took place in a parking lot and I didn't get any real road experience.

so u spent 2 hour in parking lot?????? :confused: :confused:

[suupaa]

I paid my $60 for a ShiftNation lesson a month ago, and it did a pretty good job of teaching me the basics of driving manual. Most of the real learning takes place when you're sitting in your own car anyway, and ShiftNation did a good job of introducing the basics. The only complaint is that the lesson took place in a parking lot and I didn't get any real road experience.

Once I know the basics and can get my new car from the dealer (without stalling), I am satisfied. :) Road experience is a matter of practice, which I am doing pretty good now. It's just like a motorcycle course, you also learn the basics in a big parking lot, road experience will be on your own bike.

[GangStarr]

I have tried emailing and calling Shift Nation and I have never recieved a response ...

It makes me think it is just some guy in his car teaching you to drive than a real business ... :confused:

it is, I called because I wanted to buy a freind some lessons as a birthday gift. The guy answers the phone with "HELLO" and seemed suprised I was asking him about stick lessons.

he laughed at me and told me "no gift certificates"

terribly unprofessional, I would never consider taking a lesson with someone like that.

[lofidelity]

I asked the ShiftNation guy during the lesson, and he basically said he's the owner, website designer, and main instructor. He also has a guy out in Mississauga to handle lessons on the west side of town.

So it's basically one guy running this business in his spare time. Can't really complain for $60 though.

[GangStarr]

I asked the ShiftNation guy during the lesson, and he basically said he's the owner, website designer, and main instructor. He also has a guy out in Mississauga to handle lessons on the west side of town.

So it's basically one guy running this business in his spare time. Can't really complain for $60 though.
If what the rest say is true in that he only teaches in a parking lot, its a waste of time.

[suupaa]

If what the rest say is true in that he only teaches in a parking lot, its a waste of time.

For a person who have driven manual for years, 2 hours in a parking lot maybe boring. But there are beginners like me. I would prefer to learn the basics safely with least distraction than in the traffic. Btw, I could go all the way to 3rd gear, do downshifting, reverse, uphill start etc in that 2 hours, and everything were new for me.

If what you're saying is true, then sitting in a flight similator for a student pilot will be a waste of time!!!!

[crazycap]

For a person who have driven manual for years, 2 hours in a parking lot maybe boring. But there are beginners like me. I would prefer to learn the basics safely with least distraction than in the traffic. Btw, I could go all the way to 3rd gear, do downshifting, reverse, uphill start etc in that 2 hours, and everything were new for me.

If what you're saying is true, then sitting in a flight similator for a student pilot will be a waste of time!!!!

very curious to know why you registered on Apr 19th just to speak up for ShitNation.

[suupaa]

very curious to know why you registered on Apr 19th just to speak up for ShitNation.


I am not speaking up for anyone. Just want all the beginners like me to learn safely. :|

[GangStarr]

For a person who have driven manual for years, 2 hours in a parking lot maybe boring. But there are beginners like me. I would prefer to learn the basics safely with least distraction than in the traffic. Btw, I could go all the way to 3rd gear, do downshifting, reverse, uphill start etc in that 2 hours, and everything were new for me.

If what you're saying is true, then sitting in a flight similator for a student pilot will be a waste of time!!!!

yes very intresting that you register a new nick to defend your business. The truth is no matter how cocky you think you are in a parking lot. The real test is when your on Avenue rd between St.Clair and Dupont on that huge hill with tons of traffic and you gotta get moving.

I think the parking lot is probably to minimize the chance of an insurance claim.

I hate to knock [your] business but you really need to learn how to be professional on the phone. Tip, next time someone asks you a valid question, dont laugh at them.

[Rehan]

Looks like suupaa = nalgene = jetrider
They were all posting from the same IP address and the first two accounts even used the same e-mail address.

[nopn]

Looks like suupaa = nalgene = jetrider
They were all posting from the same IP address and the first two accounts even used the same e-mail address.

BANNED the shiftnation guy. He is too desperate to look for new customers.
I believe learning in a parking lot is pretty suck. Boring. IMO 60? I dont think is worth. :twisted: :twisted:

[nopn]

........

[Sinical]

I'm happy I didn't go to the Shift Nation clown

I signed up with Shifters (which is more expensive), but it was worth every penny.

He picked me up and we drove to a side street where there weren't a lot of cars and I could learn a little bit at a time while still in a real setting. I started slow and worked my way up. My lessons started with launching the car properly, progressed to shifted to 2nd and 3rd, then to launching on hills (still on small streets). That took about an hour.

Second lesson was a quick review (just to launch the car) and then off to real traffic (we drove around on Bloor St at 3PM in stop and go then to the South Kingsway to Queensway and around that area). 1.5 hours of driving around and learning proper control of the car in real life settings

Third lesson we did really steep hills, parallel parking, shopping mall parking (with hills), highway driving and rush hour traffic for another 1.5 hours

Total of all three lessons was $250 with tax and worth every penny. The guy was a real teacher and answered any question I had professionally. This was honestly one of the best investments I have ever made and I have since gone to test manual transmission cars at dealerships and put my deposit down on a new 6 speed car last week

I HIGHLY recommend Shifters to anyone that want to do this the right way
www.shifters.ca

[ElvaSoShexai]

um.. i have a question... everyone says not to downshift to 1st... and those online tutorials say don't shift to 1st unless ur at a complete stop... but if you are gonna go at really slow speeds for a bit (like up ur driveway) do u just do that in 2nd or at that point it's ok to shift to first?

[doanster]

I learned by telling my friend I have driven stick before but I really havn't, and convinced him to let me drive his car... then I learned on the fly my first time in a standard... only stalled once in a busy saturday afternoon mall parking lot :lol:

A good way to learn would be to test drive new cars at a dealership. The nicer (non-performance) cars have forgiving clutches and engines, making them harder to stall/damage compared to older cars (unless the older car has a worn out clutch, which are perfect to learn on as well)

[mudmojo]

um.. i have a question... everyone says not to downshift to 1st... and those online tutorials say don't shift to 1st unless ur at a complete stop... but if you are gonna go at really slow speeds for a bit (like up ur driveway) do u just do that in 2nd or at that point it's ok to shift to first?


That's because in most (if not all) OE MT cars, double clutching is required to execute a 2-1 downshift (at speeds significantly above idle speed in 1st) and I would guesstimate 95+% of MT drivers out there have no clue as to how to execute this smoothly, if at all. To be fair, it's easy to botch because of the MASSIVE relative differences in ratios between these two gears. I know I screwed 2-1 double clutch heel toe downshifts many times before but eventually perfect practice makes perfect.

I don't see any reason why civilian driving teachers would want to teach this unless it's with the students' own cars by special request. ;)

[ElvaSoShexai]

That's because in most (if not all) OE MT cars, double clutching is required to execute a 2-1 downshift (at speeds significantly above idle speed in 1st) and I would guesstimate 95+% of MT drivers out there have no clue as to how to execute this smoothly, if at all. To be fair, it's easy to botch because of the MASSIVE relative differences in ratios between these two gears. I know I screwed 2-1 double clutch heel toe downshifts many times before but eventually perfect practice makes perfect.

I don't see any reason why civilian driving teachers would want to teach this unless it's with the students' own cars by special request. ;)


so if i'm driving @ like... 5km/h (or less) in 2nd trying to position my car and make sure it fits in a tight spot downshifting to 1st should be ok?

[mudmojo]

so if i'm driving @ like... 5km/h (or less) in 2nd trying to position my car and make sure it fits in a tight spot downshifting to 1st should be ok?

Well I believe that in most passenger cars, one's driveline can't be fully engaged in 2nd and holding throttle, doing 5kph. The car would be stalled or you'd be patching out in 2nd (ie. car's going 5kph but tires spinning at 10kph). Try 10kph maybe, for argument's sake.

So if 10kph is your speed in 2nd, sure one can downshift to 1st if one knows how to downshift to 1st. I mean I regularly downshift to 1st from 2nd at speeds above 35KPH (get downshifting done before corner during straightline braking for potential clear road upon exit)... not good for the car but I don't mind breaking things and replacing them afterwards but I gather a good 99% of the people on the road do not share my mentality and that's fine.

Ask yourself why you want to do this and if you're willing to spend potentially thousands a year on drivetrain bits first because, if you're like me, your curiosity will get the better of you. Today 10kph, tomorrow 15kph, next week 20kph... you get the idea.

This is really outside the scope of this thread though IMO. Start up another thread in MVA and I'm sure the stick whizzes here will chime in. :)

[plucky duck]

I'm happy I didn't go to the Shift Nation clown

I signed up with Shifters (which is more expensive), but it was worth every penny.

He picked me up and we drove to a side street where there weren't a lot of cars and I could learn a little bit at a time while still in a real setting. I started slow and worked my way up. My lessons started with launching the car properly, progressed to shifted to 2nd and 3rd, then to launching on hills (still on small streets). That took about an hour.

Second lesson was a quick review (just to launch the car) and then off to real traffic (we drove around on Bloor St at 3PM in stop and go then to the South Kingsway to Queensway and around that area). 1.5 hours of driving around and learning proper control of the car in real life settings

Third lesson we did really steep hills, parallel parking, shopping mall parking (with hills), highway driving and rush hour traffic for another 1.5 hours

Total of all three lessons was $250 with tax and worth every penny. The guy was a real teacher and answered any question I had professionally. This was honestly one of the best investments I have ever made and I have since gone to test manual transmission cars at dealerships and put my deposit down on a new 6 speed car last week

I HIGHLY recommend Shifters to anyone that want to do this the right way
www.shifters.ca


Congrats. I bought my first car and went with a manual despite all objections. I didn't even have the basic grasp of how manual transmissions work and learned on the fly driving it out of the lot. Stalled once but got through the rest of the way home. Now I'm just loving what it has to offer compared to boring automatics.

[Beradon]

I didn't even have the basic grasp of how manual transmissions work and learned on the fly driving it out of the lot. Stalled once but got through the rest of the way home. Now I'm just loving what it has to offer compared to boring automatics.That's all fine and dandy but have fun driving the manual in the city plus the stop and go traffic.

[Sinical]

picked up my car this afternoon and drove it home without any problems ... I actually really enjoyed going through the gears and can't wait until the breakin period is through so that I can really open her up ... :D

[doanster]

um.. i have a question... everyone says not to downshift to 1st... and those online tutorials say don't shift to 1st unless ur at a complete stop... but if you are gonna go at really slow speeds for a bit (like up ur driveway) do u just do that in 2nd or at that point it's ok to shift to first?

I downshift to 1st all the time - it's better than lugging your engine in 2nd.
They just don't suggest it for beginners because if you don't properly rev-match, you get a nasty lurch because of the high gear ratio.