Analytical comparisons; ipod playback quality

[konfusion666]

Looking for analytical comparisons of the iPod's mp3 playback quality.

frequency response charts, etc.

Tried google but couldn't find any. Incidentally if any of you who owns multiple mp3 players wants to provide anecdotal comments whilst being as bias-free as possible, please post. ;)

[bfurtado]

I used to own a creative nomad zen 20GB before going to my iPod. I think, with the added EAX environments, the sound was slightly richer on the zen then the iPod, but using the EAX enhancements diminished battery life. In the end, it didn't really change much. You'd get more audio fidelity by 1) choosing higher bitrates, ad 2) better headphones, then choosing a different mp3 plaer of similar quality. Basically, I think the iPod may not produce the BEST sound but the difference is negligible and not even noticeable if you choose good headphones and encode your music at higher bitrates.

Brian

[Brandon]

Another point of view, I use my iPod while in the car, on the bus or at school. None of those environments are quiet enough that I would hear the subtle differences between players. So really, with normal usage I doubt you would notice any difference (provided all other variables were the same: headphones, music files, etc).

I had 4 different iPods (5GB 1st gen, 10GB 3rd gen, 20GB 4th gen, mini) and they've all sounded about the same...it's hard to say because I haven't had them simultaneously...but I'm assuming they should sound the same if they use the same hardware (not too sure on this). But I've also owned the Rio PMP300, 500 and Nitrus, and I can't think of anything that sounded better/worse when using those players.

[JimG]

The iPod has crappy bass, that's my only complaint.

Jim

[Ultra-]

Don't bother with the ipod if you want to use EQ's. The stock earbuds don't do the ipod justice (and all other mp3 players as well). You need good quality earphones to hear what the ipod is capable of.

[eelfliw]

You do know that iPods are devices of convenience, not high fidelity.

MP3s can sound pretty good. But not as good as the original as the compression and decompression process takes away quality.

[warpdrive]

If you used Apple Lossless Compression, and plug the iPod into a full size stereo, the Apple iPOD sounds as good as any single CD player that I've heard under $400.00.

I did an experiment once, I plugged it into a stereo costing over $8000.00 (Linn speakers, Bryston amp, Bryston preamp) and it sounded marvellous.

I would confidently say that the ability of the iPod to sound good is limited by the equipment you are using. That means, with a proper set of headphones, and lossless compression, there are no issues, unless the headphones are hard to drive.

Any issues people have regarding sound quality (.e.g weak bass) is mostly due to the particular set of headphones they are using. I tried a Grado SR225, normally an amazing headphone, but the iPOD sounded a bit weak. The SR225 needs to be driven using a headphone amp to really shine.

Of course, if you use the EQ or use lossy compression, all bets are off.

Personally, I think it's all really moot because I can't discern much difference in the sound quality when I'm outside and walking around anyway.

[crimsona]

Buying a mp3 player for 'sount quality' is a poor reason. With the exception of cheap flash-based players, cell phones and PDAs, the sound quality differs much more when you get a set of decent headphones.

Or get a portable amplifier and then buy the headphones.

[konfusion666]

MP3s can sound pretty good. But not as good as the original as the compression and decompression process takes away quality.

Well, if you're using the Fraunhofer codec, then even using 256kbps full-stereo has it's drawbacks. But I switched to LAME ages ago.

But I've also owned the Rio PMP300, 500 and Nitrus, and I can't think of anything that sounded better/worse when using those players.

Your statement seems a bit unclear - you don't think the iPod sounded any better/worse than the Rio players? So everything sounded the same to you?

It's interesting that someone complained about the iPod having poor bass - I posted this thread because I saw a comparison of frequency response across several mp3 players and iPod had a severe drop-off @ 19KHz (which is within my audible range) while others would only drop-off after 20KHz. So 1 complaint about poor bass, but no complaints about poor treble?

Buying a mp3 player for 'sount quality' is a poor reason.

I disagree. It's very possible to generate high-quality MP3s. There is a sufficient market for audiophile equipment. It stands to reason that there is also a sufficient market for "high quality" portable audio devices.

[Rehan]

Looking for analytical comparisons of the iPod's mp3 playback quality.

frequency response charts, etc.
http://www.google.ca/search?q=ipod+nomad+frequency-response (http://www.google.ca/search?q=ipod+nomad+frequency-response)

Go to the first page in the results and then click on the "Index" link to see other MP3 players.
(That may be what you've already seen...)

[konfusion666]

http://www.google.ca/search?q=ipod+nomad+frequency-response

Go to the first page in the results and then click on the "Index" link to see other MP3 players.

LOL, yes actually that was what got my curious about this topic in the first place.

Since I trust PCMag only about as far as I can throw a copy, I was looking for more "audiophile"-ish investigations.

[XmsrpX]

The iPod has crappy bass, that's my only complaint.

Jim

are you connecting via headphone jacks or docking connection/line out? the headphone jack bass has been filtered. perhaps because headphones could be ruined by too much bass/low freq input.

[chatbox]

If you're looking at an iPod, just remember, don't use the EQ.

[JimG]

are you connecting via headphone jacks or docking connection/line out? the headphone jack bass has been filtered. perhaps because headphones could be ruined by too much bass/low freq input.

Headphones, I don't have a dock. It's not the iPod headphones that are at fault, it's the iPod itself. I've got a Sony MP3 player that provides better bass, frankly it sounds much better than my iPod, but not nearly as cool. It sort of defeats the purpose of the iPod if you have to connect through the line-out of an optional accessory to get decent sound.

Jim

[warpdrive]

It's not the iPod headphones that are at fault, it's the iPod itself. I've got a Sony MP3 player that provides better bass

I would dispute this. First, you have to define what you mean by better.

By better, I mean, flat frequency response, and high degree of accuracy. Some people prefer a spike in lower bass, but that is actually distortion.

In order to judge the iPOD properly, take your set of headphones, plug it into your MP3 player, and then plug the same headphones into a reference quality system with a good headphone amp and compare.

Here is one set of charts of frequency response.

http://www.pcmag.com/slideshow/0,2394,s=1612&a=110744,00.asp

If anything, the Sony device reviewed has a pretty poor response in the high frequencies.

[konfusion666]

For the original poster, here is one set of charts of frequency response.

http://www.pcmag.com/slideshow/0,2394,s=1612&a=110744,00.asp

Thanks, but as I indicated to Rehan already, I'm looking for a more audiophile-ish review. ;)

Maybe some analysis of the accuracy of the iPod's MP3 codec... hell, I'll just find the stuff myself. :P

[konfusion666]

If anything, the Sony device reviewed has a pretty poor response in the high frequencies.

The ATRAC device, yes. The MP3 device has a chart almost identical to the iPod.

[JimG]

I would dispute this. First, you have to define what you mean by better.

By better, I mean, flat frequency response, and high degree of accuracy. Some people prefer a spike in lower bass, but that is actually distortion.

In order to judge the iPOD properly, take your set of headphones, plug it into your MP3 player, and then plug the same headphones into a reference quality system with a good headphone amp and compare.

Here is one set of charts of frequency response.

http://www.pcmag.com/slideshow/0,2394,s=1612&a=110744,00.asp

If anything, the Sony device reviewed has a pretty poor response in the high frequencies.

Well, I can only give you my qualitative opinion on the sound. The bass on the iPod isn't as "strong" as on my Sony player, or any other CD-Player I've ever used. By strong I mean that the bass doesn't stand out as much as it does on the other players. With some songs, there are very low tones, the ones which would give you the rummble on a stereo system with a nice sub. I just find that iPod doesn't play those low notes as loudly as compared to my Sony player. Fortunately for me, I'm mostly a rock fan, so I don't need too much bass, otherwise I'd be returning my iPod. I guess what I'm saying is that the iPod has a really crappy EQ, and practically no bass-boost capability, which is a common feature on even the cheapest of CD-Players.

Jim

[warpdrive]

Fair enough.

I do find that the headphone amp is a bit weak, so it wouldn't take a very complex load to hit its limitations.

In my experience, it can sound really really good when driving the right headphones or using the dock.

[Brandon]

Your statement seems a bit unclear - you don't think the iPod sounded any better/worse than the Rio players? So everything sounded the same to you?

In terms of my usage in real life, I didn't notice any differences. As I mentioned, most of the time when listening to it there is too much background noise to be able to pick out any subtle differences between the players...atleast for me. When I'm at home I listen to music through my computer, so that's really the only place where it would be quiet enough.

And most of the time, I use the iPod's eq set to "Hip Hop" mode. I can definately tell the difference when using decent headphones, even when in a noisy environment.

[eelfliw]

Well, if you're using the Fraunhofer codec, then even using 256kbps full-stereo has it's drawbacks. But I switched to LAME ages ago.

With an iPod, you have no control over the "dec" part of the MP3 codec. It's what comes with the iPod unless you know of some place where custom firmware for iPod can be obtained.

Don't get me wrong, I have an iPod and am not knocking the iPod. I just don't think it qualifies as a high end audio device for playing MP3s.

[XmsrpX]

here's the ipod frequency response. line out vs headphone jack

http://members.brabant.chello.nl/~m.heijligers/ipod/Performance/iPodSP3rdGen.jpg

i think perhaps the ipod headphone jack has a high pass rolloff at 100hz. to get the flatter bass response, you need to use the line outs from the docking connector. this was probably done to minimize damage to the stock headphones.

http://members.brabant.chello.nl/~m.heijligers/ipod/Performance/measurements.html

http://members.brabant.chello.nl/~m.heijligers/ipod/Performance/compared.html

[warpdrive]

hey, the rolloff is pretty severe, which confirms what the above poster said. I've been using the dock most of the time, or my E2C headphones. And Apple Lossless quite a lot.

That is way to go to get the best sound out of the iPOD. Used in this way, I think the iPOD is really capable of high end sound.

I really do not like the sound of MP3's (on any device), it's really like chopping an arm off.

[konfusion666]

great, more info... thx