Any CA's here?

..or anyone in the accounting field, that can give me some insight into the field, and any other info that might pertain to me wanting or not wanting to pursue such a field?
I was looking at the requirements but I cannot find what you need from university to apply to take the courses etc, is there a certain GPA out of university you need?
Their website says you need to take the credits and recieve no lower than a B- and pass the UFE.

I had looked into this and from my understanding there's no requirements out of university. The grade of B- is in EACH of the 17 courses for the CA, not an average and not for any other courses.

Basically the process is
- Have the required 17 courses which could have been taken as part of your undergraduate degree.
- Find work with an approved CA firm
- Apply to the CA organization
- complete 30 months of workexperince and at the sametime CA modules [nightcourses of some sort]
- lastly write the UFE and you're a CA

Reasons I've heard for going into accounting is that if you're good with numbers accounting is something you might want to look into. The pay for a CA is pretty good. Start is $65K in the GTA and upwards of $80K for an auditor. CA's go on to become CFOs and CEOs. I have a B.Sc in computer science and am currently working on 2 of the 17 required coureses. I was unable to get back into IT after losing my job over a year ago. I decided to become a CA because I'm good with numbers and it made more sense than getting a masters/PhD in computer science or getting an MBA

AFAIK, all of the three accounting designations (CGA, CMA & CA) require you at least a bachelor ddegree

Ok, so now to further worsen my situation, I will have none of the requirements from my undergraduate degree as it is a B. Sc in Health Studies/Psych. Do I have to take other course to qualifiy to even take the CA courses?
This also seemed like a better choice than getting an MBA to me, not to mention on the CA site they say the median income is 68K and average is 131K
Also do you know approx how long it would take one to get the full designation?

btw..thanks for replying

Originally Posted by koshimaro

Ok, so now to further worsen my situation, I will have none of the requirements from my undergraduate degree as it is a B. Sc in Health Studies/Psych. Do I have to take other course to qualifiy to even take the CA courses?
This also seemed like a better choice than getting an MBA to me, not to mention on the CA site they say the median income is 68K and average is 131K
Also do you know approx how long it would take one to get the full designation?

btw..thanks for replying

Depends on the path you take. Waterloo accounting program is the fastest because right after you finish you can write the UFE right away. If you go the "normal" route, you usually finish your 4 years, usually in a business or commerce program. Once your graduate you usually start working for a recongized company starting usually in September or May. And during your first year working with that compnay, you'll usually write your core examination and then go to the school of accounting which is held in York for Ontario I believe. If you past those first two parts you then go on to write the UFE which takes place once a year in May I believe.
Finishing the 3 exams usually takes 2 years after you graduate, that is if you don't fail any one of the three and if your able to find a job with a recongized company

Originally Posted by koshimaro

Ok, so now to further worsen my situation, I will have none of the requirements from my undergraduate degree as it is a B. Sc in Health Studies/Psych. Do I have to take other course to qualifiy to even take the CA courses?
This also seemed like a better choice than getting an MBA to me, not to mention on the CA site they say the median income is 68K and average is 131K
Also do you know approx how long it would take one to get the full designation?

btw..thanks for replying

Some schools offer graduate accounting programs which are targeted to uni grads who want to become CAs who dont have any previous accounting knowledge or coursework. There is the Master of Management and Professional Accounting program at UofT which basically is a two year program designed to give you all the necessary 51 credit hours necessary to be a CA. Many other schools have similar programs, off the top of my head, McGill and WLU have similar programs (Although they are diplomas and not graduate degrees).

Click on the school that you goto

CA: 70% each course min.
http://www.icao.on.ca//index.cfm/ci_id/139.htm

CMA: 60% each course min.
http://www.cma-canada.org/ontario/20_univ_stud_20.asp


why do every person out there wants to become an accountant? I bet you its because people think its a social status to be in a professional field. If it were not for the name, 1/2 the people wouldn't be jumping into CA/CMA

I suggest that you really explore into the field before you invest into your studies. I was talking to a friend who is all hyped up about going to become a CFA (Chartered Financial Analyst)... I go, "so you're interested in things like asset valuation and capital market management?" He goes, "Huh?".

Originally Posted by koshimaro

Ok, so now to further worsen my situation, I will have none of the requirements from my undergraduate degree as it is a B. Sc in Health Studies/Psych. Do I have to take other course to qualifiy to even take the CA courses?
This also seemed like a better choice than getting an MBA to me, not to mention on the CA site they say the median income is 68K and average is 131K
Also do you know approx how long it would take one to get the full designation?

btw..thanks for replying

Wow...tough break...changing career. Why have you change career goals all of a sudden?...getting a CA/CMA will take another 3+ yrs

what r u going to do in the meantime? have you had any accounting work experience? it's not the most exciting profession haha (im a CMA...lots of work with the spreadsheet)

btw...you do not need to be good with numbers to be an accountant...

accounting isn't for everyone. there is a high drop out rate after 1-2 yrs into it. if you don't get your CA/CMA/CGA, you will be going nowhere and remain underpaid/overworked.

that said, it's a great professional designation which will lead to many opportunities, but it is not for everyone.

..


i'm getting my CGA and CFA instead

I'm doing the CA required courses now as part of my commerce undergrad.

Getting the 17 courses done is the first step. To me, it seems quite difficult to do for someone who has already graduated with taking them or is in a different faculty. 1) these courses build upon each other and are scheduled to be taken over 3-4 years, so it would be hard to rush it and get them done in 1-2 years, both in terms of scheduling and actually learning the material. 2) at my school, these courses aren't even offered to people not in commerce. The thing is, you may have to spend 3-4 years in an undergrad commerce program just to get the courses done.

AFAIK, The Waterloo program is still a 4 year undergrad program, not something you can jump into after graduating. It's also very difficult to get in. And there is some confusion over this, but I'm pretty sure the Waterloo program still requires the 2 years of work experience before you can write the UFE.

Regarding the mark requirements:
For students registered after October 31, 2000:
An average grade of B- (70%) or greater in the courses comprising the 51-credit hour requirement must be obtained, with a passing grade in each course.

Seems to me that you just need a B- average, not at least a B- in every single course.

Overall, it takes 5-7 years to get the CA, from taking the courses to getting the 2 year work experience in a firm to passing the UFE.

IMO, the course requirements almost mean having to "start over" for someone who hasn't taken them in their undergrad years. An MBA program is certainly much faster. If you look at the recent Canadian Business Magazine MBA school rankings (http://www.canadianbusiness.com/mba2004/index.jsp), salaries for MBA grads are also quite high and are are about 100% higher than the students' entering salary.

----

Edit: you can actually take the CA required courses as part of an MBA program, so that after 2 years you get both an MBA and the CA required courses. Some MBA programs offer the full 51 credits (ie McMaster), others only some.

Where does it say 60% for CMA? I am really really ticked off by the CMA website because of minimum requirements not being listed

EDIT: I see it now... but why doesn't BC have the same requirements listed? That really bugs me.

Originally Posted by Final Lazy

Click on the school that you goto

CA: 70% each course min.
http://www.icao.on.ca//index.cfm/ci_id/139.htm

CMA: 60% each course min.
http://www.cma-canada.org/ontario/20_univ_stud_20.asp


why do every person out there wants to become an accountant? I bet you its because people think its a social status to be in a professional field. If it were not for the name, 1/2 the people wouldn't be jumping into CA/CMA

I suggest that you really explore into the field before you invest into your studies. I was talking to a friend who is all hyped up about going to become a CFA (Chartered Financial Analyst)... I go, "so you're interested in things like asset valuation and capital market management?" He goes, "Huh?".

I'll second that you need not have B- in every course. You only need B- average over the required courses. In a way, this is easier than CMA's requirement of C- in every course.

As for starting from scratch, it takes a lot of time and dedication. Most of my friends couldn't do all 17 courses within the regular 4 year program, and ended up taking summer school or 5th year to get the requirements over with.

I'd first ask what YOU want to do in accounting with a designation. If you want to work in the private sector right away, you may want to look at CMA instead. Being a mature student, it may be difficult to go to school for 2 years for credits, then going into auditing for another 2-3 years.

Btw, you should have no problems finding jobs for the foreseeable future. Firms are really short-staffed, especially due to Sarbanes Oxley-effects, and they do not see this rush as a one-time phenomenon.

Can someone outline the positives and differences between the three designations? Which one allows for more growth and how long they take? CMA/CGA/CA?

Thanks!

Originally Posted by Wildfire

Can someone outline the positives and differences between the three designations? Which one allows for more growth and how long they take? CMA/CGA/CA?

Thanks!

They are very different...take an intro financial accounting course and an intro management accounting course and you will see the differences.

One of the main differences is with a CA you're working with a firm auditing companies, while as a CMA you're working at a company looking over budgets, costs etc. CMA allows more room for creativity and thinking, while CA is more clear cut, play it by the book. As for pay, I'm not sure, but I would assume CA's do get paid more.

CMA:
-heavy emphasis on manegerial accounting (as name states)
-ultimate career goal is probably closer to COO rather than CFO
-faster accreditation process than CA
-definitely more interesting stuff than CAs (academically and initial working experience)
-some CAs look down upon CMAs (and CGAs) because they feel that they're the standard, but just learn to ignore that
-increasing value in the designation as evidenced by joint MBA/CMA at Queen's, Ivey
-if I want to work in the private sector, and are more interested in running the company as opposed to being more financially oriented, this is the route I'd take

CA:
-most well recognized designation
-easier to get a job (big-4 and numerous mid-tiers)
-great opportunities post-UFE (within the firm by switching to specialty groups or in the private sector)
-getting a CPA (its American counterpart) is a joke after getting a CA
-if you find a job at one of the big-4, the working environment is VERY collegial - may be a draw for some people
-decent pay
-hours aren't that great during the busy season
-CKE/SOA/UFE process is really draining - make sure you're ready for another year of studying

CGA: (I don't know about this designation as well as the other two)
-more techincally oriented
-many more mature students in the program
-a lot of people end up working for the government later



Just so you know, CMAs and CAs were discussing the possibility of a merger this year but it's been on hold. A vote was supposed to take place before the end of the calendar year, but they've hit a lot of snags in trying to get all the provincial bodies and members buy into the idea. The official position by CA/CMA is that they will re-vote next year, but I wouldn't count on it.